How much say should parents have over others using diminutives

[Namiemcnameface]

If you call your child something that has a variety of shortenings, how much control do you think you should have over the use of particular diminutives by others?

For example if you have a Robert, and took to calling him Bobby, but then other family members/care givers/friends end up calling him Rob, Robbie, Bob, Bertie etc.

Damned if you do .... !

@HoppingPavlova , I'm known by the diminutive my parents didn't want to be used.

@AgnesMcDoo , and people lengthen it to names not on my BC.

The parents who are renaming the grandparents sound ridiculously controlling. I suspect they might end up with new nicknames of their own, although perhaps not to their faces.

When little Bobby is older, he might end up with a different diminutive, a nickname based on his surname or an obscure nickname based on an in-joke within his friendship group “he’s Egbert because of ‘Egbert Nobacon’. Hurr, hurr!”

@EstoyRobandoSuCasa I agree nicknames are totally organic (mentioned my son goes by Mayo at school), but shortenings and diminutives people seem to have more control or want more say over.

They are being stereotypically precious first time parents on the grandparent thing, absolutely. The gp's haven't taken the bait though, old enough and wise enough to know that whenever we hang out as a family and she is exclusively known as one name (even my friends call her that and she's my mum 🤣) that it isn't likely she'll be known as anything else.

@Namiemcnameface you need to think about this before you choose the name. See I would pick a name I wanted to child called not a variation of the name. So for instance, I wouldn’t call my DC Arabella (as lovely as it is) as others would shorten it to Bella and maybe I would too. If I wanted Bella, I would have chosen it in the first place.

Choose a name that you want that can’t be shortened, changed.

My youngest is called (for example, not his name) Michael and we have always called him that, but every other person since school calls him Mike. Don’t hate Mike but just not what we’ve ever called him. Strangely enough he had a good friend also called Mike - and his parents (and only them) called him Michael.

I'm with the "None" camp. If I chose the name Elizabeth, I would expect them to be called Elizabeth not Bessie, Liz, Lizzie or or any other diminutive. That isn't my child's name.

Your child, you choose. Someone else's child, you respect their choice.

Edited to say. When they get older they get to choose, without input from anyone for or against diminutives.

@gingangirly I'm from the camp that didn't approve a name unless I was happy with (or at least not strongly opposed to) all the options that went with it. For example I like Christopher, Chris, Kitt, but I have a dislike of Topher (had I read this thread before then Gopher might have swayed me!) so Christopher was off the consideration list. Instead just outright called them the diminutive I liked best (not anything to do with Christopher, just using that as an example) and that's what's on the birth certificate. Now, ironically even though the official birth cert name is (for example) Kitt I have an elderly aunt who calls him Christopher 🤣

I got called controlling for dismissing names on the off chance they were eventually shortened in a way I didn't like 🤷🏼‍♀️ but hey ho.

Basically what's happening here tbh. These parents have gone for the full name on the birth cert and are now only allowing one diminutive. They're getting called controlling and being told once baby is out in the world it really won't be up to them. They're insisting they will continue to have control as long as they take a hard line on it now which they fully intend to do.

I’m in my 60’s and have a 3 syllable first name, my mum insisted I was called that from birth, despite her sister (my aunt) attempting to shorten it initially. I’ve never had it shortened/given a nickname since. (I do like my name and it’s not very common)

Also thinking about this I realise I’m the only person who calls my eldest daughter by her given first name - everyone else shortens it/has a nickname for her. My younger daughter insisted on a shortened version of her name as a teenager, which has stuck and everyone uses that (but some also shorten that!) All except 1 of my 5 young grandchildren are known by their full first names, middle grandchild has it shortened.

I would never think to call anyone by a shortened version of their name or a nickname unless I was told by them otherwise (or their parent if they’re young)

Yep - I viewed giving my child a name as precisely that, a ‘gift’. It’s there’s to adapt, bend or mould as they wish. They can even, as one of my children did [and yes, it bloody hurt] reject/bin it entirely and do a deed-poll to have anew name [well, they kept it as a second name, so perhaps they’ll reprise it one day].

Deliberately chose names that had lots of different diminutives, too, so their name could evolve with them.

This was the same as my Gus/Gussie example.

I think it is a bit extreme to kick up over family adding an affection syllable.

But I also used the Lizzie to Beth example and agree, that is too much of a deviation if the parents don't like it.

OP how do the parents in your family get to tell the GPs what they can be called?! How does that work?

They will have zero control once the child gets to school and doesn't object to teachers and friends using a certain diminutive.

But as you have found, even putting the diminutive on the BC doesn't change that.

I know a little Matilda who was ALWAYS Mattie at home. Now she is at school, everyone calls her Tilly, much to her mother's despair, but "Tilly" likes it!

Depends on the person and the child doesn't it? The various children in our family don't have habitual nicknames (almost everyone in our family goes by their full name for some reason), but we all have elaborate long pet names a bit like cats and who knows how they emerge. They just sort of happen. It's just affectionate. Of course if someone didn't find it so, it wouldn't be done. Falling out over something like this does sound a bit strange to me, to be honest.

I wish someone would explain to me the cultural obsession/trend with shortenings. I have no idea why people are so obsessed with them and have this belief in their heads that it's inevitable for everyone's name to be shortened. Where has this come from? It feels like it's become even more of a trend within the last 10-15 years. There are plenty of people (both children and adults) that are called their full name exclusively. When it comes to school, I have never known a teacher or other children to just start calling a child a name that the child hasn't specifically asked to be called. That would be unusual here.

It isn't at all unusual in my dc's schools.

Thomas becomes Tom, Oliver becomes Olly, Isabella becomes Bella, Matilda becomes Tilly.

When it isn't the teacher, by about year 4 it's the children.

I know one Maximilian whose mum would correct anyone who used Max, which teachers and parents abided by, but once the children began calling him Max it was game over for the full Maximilian.

ETA I think it is reasonable enough for parents to say what they want their child called when they start school, and to expect teachers to follow that. But once the other children start calling Timothy "Tim," it really gets a bit hard to rein in.

It doesn't tbh! The grandparents chose their names for the first set of grandchildren and everyone else for the past two decades has followed suit until now when the newest parents are saying they intend to use completely different grandparent names. Imo the grandparents handled it very graciously, didn't antagonise or anything, just kinda didn't engage with it but privately had an opinion of 'we'll see'. When you're the 10th one and everyone else (including friends of my generation, the sons and daughters in law, local kids etc), is calling her Gigi instead of Grandma, she's quietly confident it'll stick. I'm not even sure why it's an issue, the other grandmother isn't gunning for the same name or anything 🤷🏼‍♀️

The parents have form for being charming, sort of laughing things off, saying things in such a way where you sometimes don't quite know if they're kidding, whilst at same time showing absolutely no signs of compromising whatsoever. Loveable pair overall but used to getting their own way and not taking no for an answer. Unusual for them to get actively upset about something like they did yesterday tbh. Usually everything is light-hearted and jovial, so I think the chat started off as banter as that's the expectation but became serious quite fast. Sleep deprivation affecting the humour levels perhaps.

@Restcoz I'm happy to have a go explaining the onomastics/etymology here for you. Diminutives are one of the oldest naming traditions around! For all sorts of reasons; affection, familiarity, convenience, distinguishing between others with the same name. If you had five Williams in one village, one might stay William, another become Will, another Bill (thanks to the medieval habit of making rhyming nicknames), one Liam (though actually I think that might be a specifically Irish one), or Robert becomes Robbie or Bob, Richard became Rich or Ricky, Margaret became Meg or Peg (or Daisy as I discovered recently!). There was a whole stage where names and spellings were completely interchangeable as most people were illiterate anyway. Think about Hamlet/Hamnet! Eventually some of those diminutives became names in their own right, lots of people called Daisy now without having Margret on the birth certificate! Liam is one of the most popular names around, they're not all going to be Williams.

As for why you might perceive it's a new thing, well we've had a hell of a population boom in the last three decades and also the internet makes discussions like this more prevalent in society. So it isn't just something that happens colloquially in your social circle anymore, there are posts and posts about it every day.

And people are forever saying on here that 'nicknames' (usually referring to diminutives/shortenings) evolve naturally so just because you've never heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Yes there are many people who always have and always will go by their full name, and others who got called a shortening one day out of the blue and it stuck for all time 🤷🏼‍♀️ just the same as some people got called a nickname which was nothing to do with their given name and will end up with friends who don't know them by anything else. I've been friends with a Chaz for ages, presumed he was Charles/Charlie...nope, he's Phillip!

@Restcoz have been on something of a internet deep dive looking into your suggestion about it being more prevalent in this (presumed you meant UK) culture. It's interesting in my opinion!

Turns out Britain has a looooong tradition of relatively/comparably few common given names. Before the modern era, a huge proportion of the population shared names like John, William, Thomas, Richard, Mary, Elizabeth and Anne. As I said earlier diminutives and nicknames were used for differentiation. Didn't realise it goes back as far as the middle ages. Turns out that was a really pivotal time in history for all sorts of reasons (including patriarchy unfortunately). It's also how we ended up with many common surnames like Smith, Miller and Baker.

May not have happened so much elsewhere as many cultures held on to the 'Mrs last name' tradition a lot longer as a sign of respect. My husband's family in Europe have had the same neighbours for about 40 years and they're still not on informal first name terms! The UK really lost that in the last century; friendliness and equality are valued over formality.

That's the case in western countries anyway, places like china have totally different cultures over names. Seems they're usually chosen very deliberately based on meaning, family traditions, and sometimes generation names where cousins/siblings would share a character.

Happens a lot in Australia too apparently, only they create informality by adding 'o' to the end, for example John becomes Jonno!

This is ridiculous, if you like the name Elizabeth but don’t like Liz, Beth, Lizzie etc then you should not use Elizabeth and expect people to call your child Elizabeth? The problem in the UK is we have a really hard time using people’s full names, I have a name that has an obvious ‘nickname’ which I don’t like and I have to always ask people not to use, because.. well.. it’s not my name. A lot of other cultures don’t do this

But don’t you think that’s wrong? Why should other people (even children) get to decide what someone’s name is? Obviously if the child likes their nickname then that’s absolutely fine as it’s up to them. My name is Jennifer, and everyone at school called me Jenny, despite me never calling myself Jenny, me hating the name Jenny, and it not being my name.

I like the name Elizabeth. Liz, Lizzie, Lisa, Elsa, Bet and Betsy are all OK but I don't like Eliza, Libby and Beth.

Why should I not use the name? No reason as far as I can see.
If little Elizabeth wants to call herself Beth (or a completely different name like Seraphina or Molly) at 18, then there's not a lot I can do about it.

Yes It is a bit off. But seems to be the reality.

As a parent, I would state what I wanted them called when starting school, but the reality is you start to feel a bit of a control maniac if the name gets used and your dc is fine with it. At that stage I think you just have to back off a bit.

If someone calls John "Natty" or "Bungo" or similar, I guess you can say we really aren't happy about this, but Johnny is a bit harder to say something, as I suppose it was quite foreseeable.

Oh absolutely parents don’t have control over what their child is called by peers when they are at school, of course not, but I still think it’s wrong to call someone a name they have never said is their name lol. I don’t love nicknames but I always think of the nickname when naming kids because it’s inevitable that people will give them a nickname, i vetoed a lot of lovely names just because I didn’t like the nickname

You are responding to me as if I was the one that said that you shouldn’t use the name Elizabeth if you don’t like the nicknames, but I was responding to the person who originally said that saying that is ridiculous

🤣