Sullivan

[Moomoo36]

I normally like more classic names but for some reason I'm taken with Sullivan.

Has anyone used it/know one/have an opinion on it?

Doubt I'm having a boy anyway as this is dc4 and all the others are girls but good to be prepared!

Suliman, or Suleman. Man of Peace. Solomon.

I'm normally fairly conservative with names. I really like it

I dont like surnames for names. It's quite chavvy

Sully is the big blue monster in the disney movie

O'Sullivan means "descendant of Sullivan" which suggests that Sullivan was originally a first name though.

In fact....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Sullivan_(surname)

The original bearer of the name, one Suilebhan mac Maolura, is recorded in legendary Irish genealogy as belonging to the 8th generation after Fíngen mac Áedo Duib, and placed in the 9th century.

You think Alexander and oliver are Chavvy?

are you Irish?

Immediately think of Sully, the romantic interest in Dr Quinn Medicine Woman

Aren’t Alexander and Oliver traditionally first names that have become used as surnames though?

They are not remotely in the same bracket as names like Cooper, Mason and Grayson.

Sullivan seems to be part of a slightly different trend which originated in America (where the Irish diaspora want to celebrate their roots) but has now been copied by British people who for the most part don’t even realise they are giving their kids Irish surnames as first names. Sullivan is one of these, as are Ryan and Kennedy and I’ve even seen Murphy. Some will say it’s all part of how names evolve but as an Irish person I find it distasteful. Especially when you often seem to find that the people who would happily name their child eg Sullivan, in the next breath criticise my kids’ Irish first names as being unpronounceable.

Oh and Reilly/Riley is a big one I forgot.

You'd be laughed out of court in Ireland. Especially where I live as O'Sullivan is the commonest name round here.

I suppose it might work in England. Depends on the surname too ?

Many surnames started life as first names though. In Ireland this consisted of having Mac / Son or O/ Grandson , descendent , placed in front of the name.

However this is unlikely to be the case with Sullivan which , in the Irish Súil amháin , appears to mean One Eye?

I won't get too snitty about it though. After all there's Campbell/ Crooked Mouth and Cameron / Crooked Nose
All part of life's merry pageant!

@harrietm87 Aren’t Alexander and Oliver traditionally first names that have become used as surnames though?

They are not remotely in the same bracket as names like Cooper, Mason and Grayson.

No. Alexander and Oliver were names when people were called 'Alexander of XXXX'. It was more akin to our surname. It was then a surname later adopted as a first name.

The feature we were discussing was whether surnames as first names was chavvy. Clearly Alexander abd oliver aren't. Yet they were surnames. Ergo surnames as first names are not by definition chavvy. You just don't like some surnames as first names and you have chosen to categorise them as 'different'. But they aren't. They are just more recently adopted surnames as first names. Actually some are not even recent. Hamilton was the first name of one or maybe two US presidents. Warren is hardly chavvy. Not very fashionable but not at all chavvy.

@harrietm87 Sullivan seems to be part of a slightly different trend which originated in America (where the Irish diaspora want to celebrate their roots) but has now been copied by British people who for the most part don’t even realise they are giving their kids Irish surnames as first names. Sullivan is one of these, as are Ryan and Kennedy and I’ve even seen Murphy. Some will say it’s all part of how names evolve but as an Irish person I find it distasteful. Especially when you often seem to find that the people who would happily name their child eg Sullivan, in the next breath criticise my kids’ Irish first names as being unpronounceable

How many people realise Zara or Jasmin are Persian/Iranian names? It's really not unusual that people don't know the origins of names. Just as people don't realise the names they might like were originally surnames. Or women's names that were originally men's names like Tracy, Marion, Lauren, Beverley and Hilary

I'm playing devil's advocate really as it's not a name I'd choose myself. But I do think sometimes we can be very rigid about names. And "chavvy" is a particularly unpleasant description which seems to be disproportionately applied to Irish names, "new" names, and surnames used as first names.

Exactly. Nearly every Irish surname will have an origin of 'descendant of chieftain called X who ruled half of Munster in 510 AD' or similar. But these names then very quickly became surnames.

I'm Scottish and live in Scotland so I don't need to consider how it works in England too strongly. It would go well with our very weird surname.

However I really think this is all hypothetical because I feel nearly certain and am kind of hoping this baby will be a fourth girl for us. Not finding out the sex though so want to have a few boy names ready just in case.

I don’t like it because it shortens to Sully, as pp pointed out very negative meaning. Especially if you are hoping for another girl and he ruins the set…

I didn’t say any names were chavvy. I said that Alexander and Oliver are in a different category from Mason and Grayson, and they absolutely are. I think you are actually agreeing on this point?

Fwiw I don’t think there is anything wrong with British people using random unrelated British surnames (like eg Mason) for their kids. I do however object to them using Irish surnames for their kids, not because I think it is chavvy but because I think it is inappropriate cultural appropriation.

Oh and the Zara/Jasmin example isn’t analogous. A proper analogy would be if Singh or Patel or Wang or Romanov as a first name. It would be weird, and it doesn’t happen.

Alexander and Oliver were names when people were called 'Alexander of XXXX'. It was more akin to our surname. It was then a surname later adopted as a first name.

I think you have this slightly muddled. For example, Alexander the Great. Alexander was his first name and he didn’t have a surname - ancient Greeks didn’t use them. The name became a surname after use as a first name. Likewise Oliver, first used as a first name (eg Charlemagne’s pal) and then as a surname. Both probably originally used as surnames in a patronymic sense but without a -son, Mc- etc being added.

Ruins the set! As if! My children aren't a set anyway, they are extremely different individuals who happen to all be the same sex.

Having a slight preference for a girl is purely based on the fact that I am very used to raising daughters. Obviously I would love a boy as much as I love my girls but I would feel a bit fish out of water for a few days I imagine!

Huh? You are just being selective. Why wouldn't Zara or Jasmine be cultural appropriation whereas the others are? Just because you think so doesn't make it so. Using names from other cultures is either cultural appropriation or it's not. You can't go around saying Finlay is CP but Zara isn't. You don't get to pick and choose

@GeraltsBathtub Ithink you have this slightly muddled. For example, Alexander the Great. Alexander was his first name and he didn’t have a surname - ancient Greeks didn’t use them.

Yes. They didn't have fist names. They had Onr bane followed by their region usually. The one babe was more akin to our surnames. Like in many many cultures around the world. The one name linked them to something. A clan. A family. A sect. It was akin to a surname. Not a first name. You've confused yourself. And I know this. I'm not guessing. My ds studied classics. We have discussed this

Jesus the auto correct mixed with no glasses has thrown madness into my texting

I don't like it. I dislike surnames being used as first names (Cooper, Riley, etc)