Aoibhinn

[suzettenoisette]

How is Aoibhinn pronounced correctly?

I think it looks very pretty.

We are not considering it as DD will be Eva Marie, just curious.

Yes, Aibhînn (a-veen) is an old Irish name and was even said to be a Banshee known as "The Lovely One"
http://houseofbrianboru.blogspot.com/2012/06/normal-0-false-false-false-en-us-x-none.html

Thanks, that is kind of cool and kind of scary ;) But Aibhinn is a pretty name! In order to get it right would it be Aibhínn these days? Or Aibhinn?

or Aodhbhín

Has a fada > Aibhínn (The fada isn’t required for Aoibhinn but is for Aibhínn)

Thank you!

I found this old thread and I so wished it could be revived because I would have loved to know which spelling for ay-veen the OP ended up choosing!

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/baby_names/4194238-irish-names-help

@nothingseasy

If you are still here, I'd be so curious to know :)

This. Maddeningly, there are just people who mispronounce it. See also the Sorcha-pronounced-SORE-shuh muddle.

I was in college with a Sorcha pronounced Sore-sha. She used to get so cross when the lecturers would say Sorcha! In my head Sorcha is Sur-cuh or Sur-uh-cuh (barely prouncouncing the uh in the middle)

Oh don't even go there with the sore-shas. Their parents should be in Mountjoy for name crimes 😫😅

yes I think they meant Saoirse and used Sorcha and just settled on a half way between the 2 pronounciation that is not right for either!

E-Veen

Yes, I'd consider Ay-veen as an anglicised pronunciation of the name and there's nothing at all wrong with that only to be aware of it I suppose.

This link shows how it's pronounced in the Irish language in various dialects.
www.forvo.com/word/aoibhinn/

Similarly, the Ny-ul pronunciation of Niall is an anglicisation ( Irish Nee-ul), but doesn't seem to attract as much attention as Ay-veen. Where I am Eithne is pronunced as Et-na, but apparently that was based on the type of error @EarringsandLipstick describes, but it's well established now. In Irish there wouldn't have been a t sound in the name.

I'd also consider the spellings Orla and Donal as being somewhat anglicised as they lack their Irish language fadas.

I’d see Ay-veen as in a different category to Orla, Donal etc — an error rather than an Anglicisation. ‘ -eann ’ as ‘een’ just suggests the person has no familiarity with Irish phonetics.

Easier to understand when used abroad, obviously, where as time passes there can be a desire to acknowledge Irish heritage, but little to no knowledge of Irish. Though I must admit that pronunciations of Deirdre as ‘Dear-dree’ massively irritate me.

https://www.teanglann.ie/en/fuaim/aoibhinn

Sorry, this is what I actually meant to link to show the pronunciation in different dialects. Of course, those pronunciations are for the word rather than the name. The name seems to have developed an addition anglicised pronunciation, Ayveen.

Sorry, cross posted with you @AspidistraFlying.
I wouldn't think that anglicisation of Irish words is necessarily an error-free process though?

How would you say Eithne @LizzieAnt ?

Well, I grew up saying Et-na and the people I know with the name use that pronunciation so that's what I still say. I'm aware that isn't how it was originally said though. It's a revived name and as such errors were made, but I'm in Munster and the pronunciation Etna is established here now for the most part. I'm actually not sure how it's said in the Munster Gaeltacht areas though, it's English speaking where I live.

Further north Eithne is pronounced Enya, at least by Irish speakers. The singer Enya's name is Eithne. I'm not completely sure how it was or is said by native speakers here in the south as I've just not come across it. Though the n in Eithne is slender you generally don't get a y sound for this like you do further north. I imagine it as like the Irish word aithne but with an e - so something like Eh-neh if said quickly. Ena was used as a anglicised spelling for Eithne in the recent past and I've seen death notices list names as Eithne (Ena) but I don't know exactly how those women pronounced their names. Edna was also used as an anglicised form of Eithne. I do know the t wouldn't have been pronunced originally as it is now in Et-na.

Eimear is another name that was revived and is thought to have been said as Ever. Most people now say Ee-mer, but I'm not certain how native speakers say it. (I must find out!) So this sort of thing has happened to a number of Irish names. I think maybe Aoibhinn gets noticed more because it's a word in Irish as well as a name and it's never said as Ayveen when used as a word.

Ee-vin

Taoiseach isn't tay-shukh (or tea sock).

De hAoine isn't day hayna.

AOI is pronounced EE (long E sound).

Eithne was originally pronounced "Etna".
Aoibhinn, the word, was "oíbind" in Old Irish, but was also spelt "oebind" and "aebind" and even "ébind" as well as "aíbind". Ie it was pronounced both as "eevinn" and "ayvinn". It's in dil.ie https://dil.ie/33596

I don’t know if the current pronunciations "Etna" and "Ayveen" are revivals so much as survivals.

"Aeibhinn" would be both historically/ etymologically accurate and would give the pronunciation "ay-vinn" or "ay-veen", but I don't think anyone uses that spelling nowadays.

Eithne was originally pronounced "Etna".

Originally? Thats exactly how its pronounced. Its my aunts name.

I don't think I agree that they're survivals rather than revivals @SunnyFog . I think names like Eithne and Aoibhinn fell out of use for centuries. A large number of first names of native Irish origin were thought to be out of use by 1500, some stuck around until 1600. Some disappeared earlier. A lot of names we think of as Irish today are originally of foreign origin. Names like Seán, Eoin, Liam, Tomás, Máire, Siobhán, Caitríona, Síle - they're all of foreign origin and replaced some of the older names. Also, for a while names here had to be in English offically even if Irish versions were used at home. The Catholic church encouraged (for many years insisted on) the use of Saint's names - at least one - when baptising a child too. Some Irish saints had native names but many names had no saint to represent them. (There are St Eìthnes but no St Aoibhinn as far as I know.) All these things had an effect. By 1864, when civil records started, the names used in Ireland were Mary, Kathleen, Ann, Margaret and John, Patrick, Thomas...names like these. Brigid (various spellings) was also widely used at this time, but this was more the exception than the rule and of course St Brigid was a saint's name.Some of the older Irish names have been revived now. This started in the 19th century for names such as Eithne and others were revived later, like Aoibhinn. That's my understanding of it anyway. If you look at census figures from 1911 there's no listing for Aoibhinn (or Aoibheann, Aoibh or Aoibhe). Very few Avas and few Eves, though Eva was fairly well represented, especially among Anglo-Irish families. Also, the CSO birth data starts in 1964 but none of those names appears until the 70s. So I do think Aoibhinn is a revival, yes. I'm not sure how Aoibhinn was pronounced in Old Irish. Today in Irish it's ee-vin, at least as the word rather than the name. I do think Ay-veen may have been a name in the past. There's a St Éimhín (associated with Monasterevin) and his name would be pronounced like that today, though I'm not sure how it was said in the 6th century when he lived.Regarding Eithne...yes, I think I got some of that wrong or explained it wrong, I'm sorry. I did read that Eithne pronounced as Etna was an error in the revival process but I think now what was meant is that's not how the name should be pronounced in modern Irish. Ó Corráin gives the pronunciation as Eh- n'e (where ' denotes the consonant as slender). I have since found a few audio links of native Connacht speakers saying the name and they say it either as Enya or Eh-neh. There is no t sound as th does not have a t sound in modern Irish. However, you are right of course that it was said differently in old Irish and the th was pronounced then. So yes, it could have been Ethne at some stage, not exactly Etna as I say it, but maybe close-ish? I've read that the original form from the mythology was Eithniu or Eithliu, so maybe Eithne was a bit later? I'm not sure. The change in the pronunciation of th in Irish happened centuries ago now. So I think the fact that people do say Eithne as Etna now strongly suggests that this pronunciation was reintroduced. If the name had been in constant use over the centuries I think the th sound would have changed in the name as it did in all the other words and the t wouldn't be pronounced. So yes, I think Eithne (certainly Eithne as Et-na) is a revival too.Sorry for the essay!!

Sorry, there were paragraphs when I wrote that message, I promise!😳

@LizzieAnt that is the best post I've ever seen!
You may be right. The thing I wonder however is how much of an oral tradition there was. The written records are all English and the Irish were surprisingly literate - in English. If I understand correctly, few people could read and write Irish. They would have struggled to even know what letters to use and mixed them up. English alternate names were used so much, and there was so much stigma surrounding Irish, that the original names might be unrecognisable, hiding in plain sight. I would never have thought Ena was Eithne for instance.

@SunnyFog Yes, I do think a few of the old names survived, transformed into anglicised versions. And also maybe still spoken in Irish where Irish was used. But I think the probability is that Aoibhinn wasn't one of them, and probably not Eithne either. There's work by a Kathleen O'Brien where she looks at the names mentioned in the annals and records instances of use. This is computer generated and I don't know how accurate or comprehensive it is and women were mentioned less than men anyway (surprise!), but the work shows that Aíbinn is mentioned 3 times between 950 and 1066. Eithne is found 6 times between 763 and 1066. The work covers the period up to 1700, but there is no mention of them for centuries at that stage. Not proof or anything, but an indication that they may have dropped out of used by then.

Native names used later include the name Mór, which was very popular with 41 mentions from 916 to1599. It became Mary I think (also Agnes and Martha apparently). Sadhbh was also found up to 1584 and I think it's these later names that had a better chance of surviving the next few centuries in one form or another. If you check the civil records for 1864 to 1900 there are no Sadhbh's but quite a few Sallys. But the song Sadhbh Ní Bhruinneallaigh is thought to have been written between 1815 and 1821, which indicates this form was still known and used in places. Gormlaith was recorded in the annals from 810 to 1585. A search of the 19th century civil records finds no Gormlaiths, but 2 Gormleys (who died mid/late 19th century). Also Niall is very old but survived as Neal/Neil/Corneilus. Aodh was changed into Hugh but again it's more likely both forms were used in the areas where Irish was still spoken. That said, I watched a documentary a few years back where a disproportionate number of the older men (all native Irish speakers) seemed to be called Hughie. They'd certainly all have known that, in Ireland, Hugh is Aodh and Aodh is Hugh - but it shows that even in Irish speaking areas the English versions were often used informally as well as formally and I know that from my own family too.

Many Irish names have been revived now and we even have new ones - Aisling, Saoirse, Fiadh were words but not names traditionally. But some of the most popular even in late Middle Ages seem to have gone now - Dearbhforgaill or Dubhchobhlaigh for example.