Old Lady Names

[Hadtocomment]

For some a number of these are fashionable again. But other people will say how awful and old ladyish. Similar to middle-aged names. Or people will say frumpy etc.

I find these remarks really horrible and wondered what people think of people very openly remarking how awful names are because they remind them of an older person or make them visualise an older person. What's actually wrong with that? There is a lot of classist stuff on here that really needs a bit of reflecting on , but this agist stuff never gets questioned.

For me, there are names in my family associated with grandparents or greatgrandparents that are positive because associated with those - older - people. Most of us surely have older people in our lives who are important to us and visualising them is positive. I figure there must be quite a lot of people who agree with me as granny-chic is a trend amongst some people. But for others it is anathema.

Can someone explain the thinking about why it's so awful to some to call a kid something that was more fashionable in an earlier era? And what it is about the word "frumpy" that seems acceptable to say also. And what does frumpy even mean in a name? Do you mean it is a name popular with middle-aged people?

I like the Mabels and Elsies that are coming back. With or without the granny associations, they are just nice names with long histories, not too over the top in terms of being over-frilly etc. Even the most extreme or less popular grannyish names (I'm thinking maybe or something like Edna for example) could be quirky or cool on a youngster because it'd be so unusual surely? (I draw a line at Mildred. But that's more to do with the sound than the old-fashioned thing.)

Frumpy, I think, means unfashionable and not trendy.
Traditional in the most unlively way.
Not modern nor attractive. The nerd of names.

It's all a cycle. I remember in the late 90s hearing children being called Arthur and Archie. I thought it was so unfair, they were old men's names, they would be bullied. Now they are quite trendy. You don't get many Keiths, Malcolms or Trevors under 60, that might be the next wave.

I understand it's in waves. But I just find it a bit depressing when people say things that are quite agist. As in "I see an old lady" like it's so awful to be associated with old people. I doubt that bullying is relevant, as most kids would have no idea about what an "old man" or "old lady" name even is. It's their parents who have the prejudice about the previous generation's names, not them.

I suppose I noticed it with a recent thread discussing Mabel. A lot of people love it. I like it. But a lot of people couldn't get past the fact it was popular in another generation.

The frumpy thing is weird. Because people will say some names are "out of fashion" but not frumpy. But some names are frumpy apparently. And it always seems to be something leveled at certain female names. I dislike this prejudice.

So for example Sarah and Rebecca and Claire and Laura are the names of a certain age group. Noone seems to call their kids that anymore. Because they are out of fashion. But I don't think those are seen to be "frumpy" names.

So I think when people describe a name as frumpy it's something else. It's interesting someone above said nerdy. Surely nerdy is cool these days!.

Meanwhile we have threads on here talking about naming girls after Fairy Princesses. Very frilly, very decorative. But noone even questioned that as a strange thing.

🤷‍♀️ Some people just don’t like them, calling them old lady / old man names isn’t especially insulting, it’s just a describer.

I wouldn’t say Mabel and Elsie are coming back, Mabel peaked a good few years ago I think and is not as popular as it was. I also think Elsie must be easily at peak.

Surely it's just personal preference? I don't find "frumpy" or "old lady" anymore insulting than "chavvy" or "posh" or "boring" or "frilly"- everybody has their own preferences and people tend to be more forthright on the internet about potential baby name choices than they would be in real life.

I personally generally prefer more "timeless" names (ie. ones that don't give away the bearers age) - so names than have statistically been given mainly either to the very elderly and now very young, like your examples of Elsie and Mabel, aren't for me. So I'd use Elisabeth over Elsie. But others might call my choices boring - each to their own.

This is making me thing that the term "old lady names" is not just derogatory but actually a bit misleading. Names like Mabel and Elsie were previously fashionable so long ago that there can't be many old ladies left alive with those names. They were the names of old ladies I knew when I was a child about 50 years ago! The names of living old ladies are the ones we consider unacceptably dated rather than charmingly old-fashioned - Pauline, Maureen, Sheila, Janet, Carol, Brenda etc. (Actually I have a rather soft spot for Brenda, I think it is quite pretty just as a collection of sounds, but according to the usual cycle of things it's probably not quite ready for a comeback yet.)

I don't think there is a name everyone loves. Everyone will have an opinion on the old lady, current top 10, hyphenated, whats chavvy, whats not chavvy name. It's not pucking imon anyone

I have a friend who is a midwife. She is finding the names of our mothers' generation (1930s-40s) are returning for girls, and has recently delivered girls called:
Dorothy
Daphne
Jean
Moira
Marsha
Jane
Connie
Sandy

Not sure the boy's names of the same era are appearing yet!

She also delivered a boy called Espresso the other week in case you're thinking it's all very tame 😜

People will always associate names with certain connotations. A lot of that is personal and specific, but usually "old lady name" just means a name that was popular a long time ago and hasn't been popular since. But also, some names do suit an older person rather than a child, and vice versa.

I find it particularly strange that you moan about the word “frumpy” being used while you use the term “frilly” several times. Surely they’re both pretty equal, both used to describe a name in a negative way.

I don't find the term "old lady names" any more offensive than I would the term "chavvy names".

For me I associate certain names with people I have known in the past, regardless of the generation.
For example, I was bullied by girls called Clare, Joanne, Samantha and Kerry. All names from my era that are rarely heard now, but if I heard a baby called one of those names I would immediately be transported back to that time (being bullied).

As regards names from the generation you are referring to, I remember several old ladies of my Gran's generation - Elsie, Dora, Florence, Violet and Iris who were all lovely people. If I hear those names now it fills me with warmth.
Then there were the grumpy old women (I won't name those) who I remember from my childhood, and the association when I hear their names in use again now is not so pleasant.

I do associate names with people I have known as the past.
For me it's the memories, not that I think of them as "frumpy".

I’ve always liked the name Mirabel from Enid Blyton’s St Clare series. I’ve never heard of a child being named Mirabel though.

@peaceinourtime one of dd's besties is called Mirabel.

I always think it amusing that my grannie and her sister were Evelyn and Alice. Their mother Eleanor and her sisters Grace and Isabel My mother's aunts on the other side were Helena, Joan, Connie and Irene.

What comes round goes round. My grandchildren will probably call their DC Tracey, Deborah, Susan, Carole and Beverley.

Names from another era are like names from another community.
People don't always have the knowledge about the name's context.

Names go round in Cycles.

currently 'older' names are fashionable- not sure the world is quite ready for the next generation Of Hilda's & Gladys' yet. Lots of little Winnies- few Winnifreds though. NotMany Phyliss' either- but their day will come

Many shudder at the idea of Debbie/Tracy/Nicola/Tina/Wendy/cheryl type names - but they too will cycle round.

How many elderly Phoenix do you know? Hudson/Jackson/Axle ? no, but they too will fad and become the Malcolm & Brian of the 1970's

The lead character in Encanto is called Mirabel so I’m expecting a little influx. I thought it was a lovely movie and watched it too many times while pregnant with a daughter… one more watch and she could have been a Mirabel I think.

See, exactly.
Hilda is a short form of Mathilde, which is still popular in the form Matilda. I can see Tilly and Mattie going out of fashion, but Matilda remaining as a classic.
Gladys is Welsh - I didn't know that.
Edna is Hebrew - again I would not have guessed and I wonder if it continues to be used in Jewish communities.