"Nicknames" as first names

[Confusion101]

I often see on the baby name threads that people don't like a name because they classify it as a "nickname" or shortened version of a longer name. I was just wondering why people don't like this? Most of the names on my list are shortened versions because I don't know why we would write one name on the birth cert when we know we would call the child by another name. Just wondering so I don't regret my decision

Another example is Neighbour has a Magdalena, she’s always been called Lena, occasionally Leni by family .

They hate it when someone shortens it to Maggie, Magda or anything similar with the front part of the name, and find the full name ‘ old’. So they might as well just Named her Lena and used Leni as nickname if they wanted one.

The point of a nickname is to verbally express affection. If you use it as their actual name it becomes pointless.

This.

a diminutive name is lesser and in some way undignified
Personally I find Deborah, Isabel, Albert and Edward MUCH more dignified than Debs, Izzie, Albie or Eddie.

I think you’ve misunderstood my point. The lack of imagination is the people calling their baby Chuck instead of Charles or whatever because they fail to think that it might not be so amusing when the child is 40.

On the gravitas- definitely think names like John or Paul or Mark (or whatever trad one syllable name you like) have more weight to them than Alfie or Jimmy. Obviously some people aren’t interested in this 🤷‍♀️ I’m just giving my own view.

I quite like the Duke or Dustman test (as in, could the name work for either- if so, it’s a good name as it is). Alternatively, if the name you like sounds like a dog’s name (as some of these abbreviations do) maybe better to give the kid some options.

@Confusion101 to answer your question about how they introduce themselves.

I'm Elizabeth. Mostly I go by Liz. When I meet someone new I introduce myself as Liz. On anything official I'm Elizabeth so usually if people are reading my name off a system etc that's what they use.

I really like my name and I love that I can shorten it to loads of different things. I don't think I'd like it if my parents had just put Lizzie on my birth certificate (the nn the used from me being born)

On the gravitas- definitely think names like John or Paul or Mark (or whatever trad one syllable name you like) have more weight to them than Alfie or Jimmy.

Yes, John, Paul, Mark, Alfred, James have more gravitas than Jonnie, Paulie, Markie, or Alfie. The latter are cutesy nicknames to be used by family and close friends

It's strange because some are acceptable and others not. Archie, Alfie, Ellie, as examples are generally accepted but Izzy, Millie, Lottie might get questioned.

"It just goes against the whole concept of a nickname. The point of a nickname is to verbally express affection. If you use it as their actual name it becomes pointless."

Yes - nicknames. But shortened names aren't just nicknames and sometimes are other names entirely and they are not just about expressing affection, they are because people used to have massive families and very few names. So the name John might be the dad and a son, and sometimes even more than one son! So you get Jack used for a grown-up, not just Johnnie which might be the affectionate child one. Or Margaret and Elizabeth and Mary were so used that you get funny things like Polly being used for Mary (I think I've remembered that right). Or Daisy for Margaret. Which is obviously a nonsense these days. Polly and Daisy have been so widely used they are also now names in their own right.

I find it a bit weird that you might put Katie or Kate and not Katherine on the BC. But then I like Katherine and it links so easily to Katie. The other point being that people understand this link very well so it won't cause lots of hassle to do this. However putting Polly for Mary is now just majorly nonsensical. Polly is now a name in it's own right. Why is it so different from the other IE names? It sounds very similar. In the meantime, MN loves an ancient Greek IE sound at the end. Like Xanthe. Two syllables and an ie sound on the end. But somehow that's ok but it's not ok to be Polly or Daisy (both of which I've seen criticised on here as adult names?). Which are probably much more established names and probably easier to use for the owner? I would rather be either than a Xanthe. Nothing against anyone who loves Xanthe by the way but I don't think it'd be an easier name to have as an adult particularly. Would a judge Xanthe sound more the part than a judge Polly? I just took a look at judge names. There's a Lucy. Sounds fine. Would a Judge Lucille sound better or more authoritative? I don't think so. Would a judge Aurelia or Amelia or any of the long fashionable names have more gravitas than Lucy? I don't think so. What about people like Betty Boothroyd? After a lifetime of being Betty - wouldn't she just have sounded a bit silly suddenly insisting on calling herself Elizabeth when she gets the speaker role? Did she lack authority due to her name? Of course not. We think nothing of it as soon as someone with confidence steps in.

I suppose the other thing is that one person's "gravitas" is another person's pretention or just fussiness. It's like the parent who insists on calling the child by their full name whilst the child cringes and to everyone else is the usual shortening. When that name is really long and has "gravitas" that can be extra cringey for the child!

Not saying there is anything wrong with a longer name. Some are absolutely lovely and yes it might be nice to have options. I think things like Katherine, Elizabeth etc are so known and their many options so known that that's fine. I also understand someone who wants to call their child Eliza or Bethan might just go for that as both sound complete anyway. I think it might be a bit odd to be Lizzie with no Elizabeth as the connection is so strong anyway and people would assume it. But I don't think a longer name is necessary for a Lucy or a Polly or a Daisy. Or an Archie for that matter. Our associations change along with the names anyway and perhaps we should question ourselves a bit if we are thinking some names are not suitable for some roles as that is limiting others and a kind of prejudice really.

Seán is interchangeable with John to this day where in grew up

I'm with you. I don't understand why people don't just call their kid the shorter name if that's what they intend to refer to child as. And in no world is a name going to hold back a child in the future. Your little Tilly/Matilda is probably going to be in school with an Apple, a Romeo, and a Luna, a Princess and god knows who else. It's such an old fashioned way of thinking.

I'm so glad my parents didn't give me the diminutive of my name that they used everyday. I hate it, my actual name gives me several choices like someone named Elizabeth could choose to be Liz, Lizzie, Beth, Betty or even be radical and use Elizabeth.

using Charles rather than Charlie gives the kid more options when then grow up I always see this as one argument but then if you give them a shorter name that isnt considered a nickname e.g. Séan they don't get options when they grow up so that argument always confused me!

But Charles and Sean are proper names - they can always be 'cutiefied' by becoming Charlie and Seanie when young, by family and friends.

Which options does ‘charles‘ give that ‘Charlie’ doesn’t? Seriously?

@Hadtocomment agreed

I'm one of those people that has a short name with no nickname options it's a classic older name and I hated it growing up because everyone would say it's an old lady name but you'll grow into it I feel I only grow into it in my late 20s early 30s so I vowed to never give my children names that had only one option as a full name it really effected my confidence as a kid and I would think that would be the same if the name was too young and cutsie sounding like most diminutives when you child is a young adult they won't feel it suits them IMO

I have 3 children with long names, who use diminutives in different situations. I also have a child with a short name that can be stand alone but is also part of a longer name. I didn't like the long names so went with what I liked - ultimately whatever you choose, your kids will whinge about at some point because it's human nature to want something different to what you have!
I balanced the short name with a long middle name. In fact all my dc have middle names, so there are options if any of them had grown up to hate my choice of first name.

What's a 'long' name? 3 syllables or more?

I have a 3 syllable name that I've always loved. As a young child I was known by one nickname, at school another and now I mainly use my full name. (My close family still call me a cute nickname).
I am so glad my parents gave me a beautiful (long) name.

I think it's because you don't know what will suit the child. Charlotte can be Charlotte, lottie or Charlie for example. Lottie may feel too cutsie for them when they grow up so may prefer Charlie or want to stick with Charlotte.

I use long to mean the 'proper' name rather than a diminutive

But people very rarely get to ‘choose’ a name to be referred to by - aside from sticking it on passports etc. Generally whatever your parents call you is whenever you are known by pretty much for life. I don’t know any Lotties or Katies who have turned 35 and have declared they now want to be known as Charlotte or Catherine.

*whatever you are known by

I decided at 11, starting senior school, that I didn't want to be known by the cutesy name my family called me. I object to anyone who met me after my 11th birthday using the cutesy name but people do. Originally it fell into my parents, siblings, aunts/uncles/grandparents using the cutesy name and all teachers/friends/colleagues using the diminutive I chose. One or two people obviously felt they were being excluded and insisted on using the cutesy name, MIL being one, and I would ask them not to.

Now life has moved on and SIL/BIL tend to use cutesy name, nieces and nephews do as well. So here I am 58 years on and still trying to stamp out a name I hate and hate isn't an exaggeration but the vast majority of people I see on a daily basis do use my name of choice.

Are you Jacob Rees Mogg? Lol

My daughter has a name which is a shortened form of a longer name (she just has the shortened version on her birth certificate - we aren't keen on the longer name) we call her a completely different nickname though! So not having options is a daft reason!