Why are Americans more open to modern names than British people?

[Dawncarter100287]

I’m from US and have been on this website and other name forum websites for a long time and I have a question for British people mainly. I’ve noticed that brits always tend to stick to the old fashioned common names like Olivia, lily, Ella (Which are top names here aswell don’t get me wrong) but on the US charts there are a lot more modern names like paisley, kinsley, raelyn etc. I understand that everyone has different tastes and not everyone in America likes the modern style names either, but I’ve seen Brits call these newer names “trashy” or “too American” as insults. I’ve looked through the British top 100 and there arent really any standout names why are British people not as adventurous with their naming choices as Americans are?

I saw this post on Nameberry two months ago :) I’m always suspicious of posts that try to pit countries against one another, personally. There is a lot of anti-Americanism on MN, so you might be inspiring further opportunity for that kind of derision/bigotry as a result.

Raelyn has similar class connotations in the US as it does in the UK, I imagine. Also, the US doesn’t know the “Mack” v “Mck” naming rule of Scotland and tends to choose masculine names for girls anyway. By and large, they still have plenty of Sophias and Charlottes there!

Errrrm, you know the Australians have been on this thread too... it's not just British MNr's who are rolling their eyes out loud.

I would say it hasn't been about the difference in modernity of names between two countries (and there's not much in it as far as I can tell), but a piss take of the OP for putting up such a ridiculous post in the first place, and trying to point out a difference that doesn't really exist.

I taught in a school where most of the families originated in Northern India, but increasingly the children were given British names. I remember the twins Jake and Josh.

I'm Irish not American or British but i'd guess it's because a huge part of America's identity is that 'we all came from all over the world to unite', so there's no one identity that is accepted as the only default. In Ireland, there are two normals I'd say. Irish names are normal and English names are normal. They're both normal. So I'd imagine in America it's like that but on a much wider scale.

But also, I think it's to do with the aristocracy in the UK, that's still seen as what British people must all be aspiring to, whether they are or they aren't! I think that keeps people in the UK more conventional in their choices.

It's also aspirational in the US.

The names that are identified as 'American' in the UK all tend to have Anglo (or Irish) roots. Blending in in the US tends to be a matter of ditching the Polish, Russian, Greek, Italian, Swedish, German, Irish (as Gaeilge), Norwegian, French, Romanian, Bulgarian, Nigerian, Ghanaian, Chinese, Korean, Hebrew/Yiddish names your family had from time immemorial and striking out into the New World with names that say nothing about your non-WASP origins. The first generation gets called an 'ethnic' name, which gets shortened (Al Capone, for example), and subsequent generations are named according to the local fashion of the day. The Anglo culture is an aspiration and the acceptable default. African American names tend to be mocked because they are defiantly not the Anglo Saxon names others prefer to adopt.

You don't see Polish or Italian surnamey names. It's generally only English, Welsh, Scottish, or anglicised Irish surnames which are adopted. This may be because English is the language of everyday speech and literature (Heathcliff, etc) but the practice itself of using surnames as names is definitely WASPish with a trace of Southern gentleman, and therefore attractive.

The use of Irish surnames is an interesting case though - clearly the surname as name trend is an imitation of WASP practice, but the Irish were shit on the shoes of the WASPs when they first arrived, and using 'Christian' forenames was very much an established Irish tradition when the majority of the ancestors of present day Irish Americans arrived in the US. Irish surnames as first names signifies that the Irish have really arrived in the US.

It's definitely a case of aspiration in the UK. Anything not English/classic is frowned upon because people using names from elsewhere, or those not considered classy names, are clearly thumbing their noses at the British class system, which so many are so heavily invested in that they take the adoption of 'American' naming practices as a personal insult. It's mainly the middle classes who are choosing names like James, William, Charlotte, Ella, etc. These are the people with the most to lose if the class system is abandoned.

Raelyn has similar class connotations in the US as it does in the UK, I imagine.

Absolutely.

But the Mack vs Mck thing can perhaps be forgiven? Lots of Americans are descended from people originating thousands of miles from Scotland (and Ireland, another Mc/mac country).

I really hate place names (Camden/Madison) as first names or surnames as first names (Jackson/Mason) but the few yanks I know have names like that.

But you know what?
The world is bigger than you may suspect, and there may be more than one Camden in it. Some may be more familiar to people who choose the name for their child than others.

Also, Madison is both a place (in Wisconsin, probably many other Madisons) and the surname of James Madison, the 'Father of the (US) Constitution' and fourth president of the US. Hence thousands of American streets named after him.

wrt the name Paisley, The Artist Formerly Known as Prince remains a very popular pop culture figure in the US.

I don't agree with this premise at all. When a name is mentioned on MN there are loads of opinions, but when it comes to American names, MNers assume we have all unanimously approved them.

I might as well ask why British people like the names Chardonnay and Princess Tiaamii. (I heard them on MN, they must be English!)

And the class system -- don't get me started. Given the social/income inequality we have, you better believe we have a class system that judges people by their names!

but on the US charts there are a lot more modern names like paisley, kinsley, raelyn etc

I could just as easily start a thread called "Why do Americans choose such horrible names for their babies?" but that would be rude.

I might as well ask why British people like the names Chardonnay and Princess Tiaamii. (I heard them on MN, they must be English!)

"English"? What about all the other countries in the U.K.? What about all the other nationalities that post here?

also, I'll just wait here whilst you find out how many children were called "Princess Tiaamii" in the last 10 years.

Katie Price and Peter André's daughter is now 11, so I'm guessing the answer is none.

@mathanxiety such an interesting post about the US above. I am constantly amazed how despite the fact we're now in a more conscious and inclusive age, the baby name forum is a place where people can be quite openly prejudiced - often without realising that is what they are being. I don't blame people for this as I really think it's very subconscious a lot of the time. But I think that people should try and be more self-aware and examine these associations they have and what it says about their own assumptions. Many times on here I've read derisory comments of names that are not from the same country, for example, without people stopping to think. Really quite rude and inappropriate sometimes.

But in the UK we are in an increasingly diverse society and names from all over the world are common and increasingly so now. It's exciting I'd say. Rather than jumping to say "reminds me of a toothpaste" or something unhelpful and quite irrelevant and stuck in one person's head, people should maybe be a bit more curious. I love all the threads on here about names from different countries.

It's so interesting to read your take on names in the US. When people move they often want to keep their links to their place of origen and may of course feel more nostalgic for places that others might not feel romantic about. This has gone on for centuries.

I was reading that the very upper class English name, St John, was originally to do with people who came from a very particular French town called...St John. Presumably as the French were the upper class for a long time, the name St John became ensconsed and associated with the upper classes. Perhaps its oddness meant it didn't get copied as much by the other classes.

What you say about people attaching to place once they've emigrated makes a lot of sense of all the surname names and the place names from other countries used in the US - like Paisley. People in the UK may be snobby as they probably don't think Paisley is a very aspirational place now as it's fallen into industrial decline. However those who left Scotland - or who might have been forced to leave, are probably very romantic about it and the name makes total sense. And actually Paisley is quite a lovely sounding name. So two ends of the social spectrum in UK and exactly the same naming style. Similarly surname names like Stewart or Lewis or Cameron are very established and old in the uk. Place names like Sienna or India don't seem so complained about as - I assume - considered to be posh. Iona and Skye are not rubbished on here. So people clinging onto "I don't like place name names" or "I don't like surname names" should really examine themselves a little and ask themselves where their blanket prejudice against some names really stems from.

I find it interesting what you say about how people in the US might drop names from some countries and not others and that in itself could be part of a hierarchy or snobbery or prejudice. It's fascinating.

I find it particularly concerning when people say that you can't imagine someone with this that or the other name being in a position of power or influence or the top of the tree in your society. For centuries no women names would have been associated with the vast majority of professional positions. Just because they hadn't been allowed to be. A lot of people would maybe not have been able to imagine a women name judge or doctor or lawyer. Because they'd have never encountered one. I'm sure any of those saying they can't imagine this or that now would be horrified by the thought that they might have thought the same in the past about this. To say you can't imagine it denotes a kind of assumption about the "kind of person" who you imagine in a role. Can you imagine a judge called St John? Yes. Can you imagine a judge called Paisley? If you can't - then you should and we need to change as a society so that you can. Otherwise it means we have a society where people cannot imagine someone from a less upper class background or naming tradition being able to be in those positions. Surely everyone needs to be able to imagine people from any background being able to be in the top positions or else we all propagate the problem.

I think there is incredibly insensitive comments made by people sometimes on here about names from different kinds of naming traditions, societies, countries and also classes. People should be more aware and more open-minded. Even if we have an immediate response, maybe we should examine it rather than treating it as something that should be propagated or continued as an attitude.

I would just like to add that I think Paisley is actually rather a lovely name. Whereas St John...well...

St John (Sinjin) is infinitely nicer sounding than Nigel imo.

If it wasn't for the obviously British spelling on hearing it you may well imagine it a South Asian name like Satchin (hope I've spelled that correctly)

She's 14.

But it will still be none, I agree.

@SoupDragon Ah yes, my Googling wasn't up to scratch. I did find an article about how Princess Tiaamii hates her name, but Katie still wanted to call her next daughter Duchess Kate.

Britain and America are countries that share a common first language but, other than that, have very little in common. Off the top of my head the average British person does not agree with the average American person on religion, healthcare, gun control, the death penalty or abortion.

Why would they agree on what is a nice name for a baby?

The reason Europeans (not just the Brits) are curious about Americans using surnames as first names with such frequency is because they recognise the treasure of information and heritage that is passed down from generation to generation through names that are usually inherited.
We do it here too but to a much less degree, having said that it seems to be getting a bit trendy over here with TOWIE types and teen mums. I was on a dating app while in America and at least half of the blokes on there had names such as Cooper, Landon, Hudson, Brock, Clayton etc. It's comprehensible given the unique position European Americans are in and doesn't bother me but it is often seen as a bit naff when done over here.

www.genealogicalstudies.com/eng/courses.asp?courseID=190

...the treasure of information and heritage that is passed down from generation to generation through names that are usually inherited.

Except the names are usually not inherited and are bestowed because they're in fashion.

You get people with the names Addison, Harper, Merrick, Campbell, Cooper, Hudson, Clay, Landon Brock, etc, with surnames Piotrowski, Jakubowski, Kauffman, Bauer, O'Brien, McCarthy, Russo, Marino, Morgenthal, Feldman, Larsen, Hansen, and so on.

Most Americans have very little idea of the names of their ancestors who left Norway, Prussia, Hungary, Italy, Ireland, Scotland, Russia, Greece, etc, and came to America, let alone any clue about precise location of birth.

This.

The idea that Americans are calling their children Paisley because that is where their ancestors were from rather than because they like the sound of names like Paisley/Kinsley/Payton etc is absurd.

America and the UK and other associated Commonwealth countries have vastly different cultures. Sometimes just the pronunciation is not attractive in another country. Children are often named after their ancestors and so fashion changes slowly. I always think of hyphenated names in America - like Samantha-Sue and Billy-Bob and also many Americans name their children after cities - like Chicago and Dallas which are not in the UK. Timeless names are never a poor choice.