Why do people get so annoyed?

[Avoidance]

I’ve been reading threads on this website for a few months now and I cannot understand a number of things..

The first being why people seem to get so upset over the term “chav” or describing a name as “chavvy”. If someone has asked for an opinion on a name why is it okay to tell someone their opinion is wrong or offensive? It’s an opinion at the end of the day the person is not saying you or said child said with name is that type of person but that’s the association that springs to mind when they hear it / see it. I’m really struggling too see how it would be offensive if the comment isn’t directed at someone in particular and it’s just a generalisation and association that’s made. In the same way ‘it’s an old man/lady name’ is a generalisation.

On a similar not why is it not as offensive to describe a name as posh? Again IMO it’s just a generalisation but I don’t seem to see as many people calling others out for describing a name as posh or pretentious.

Why people bother to write something along that is totally pointless IMO as they don’t mention what the name is? For example “We picked a traditional name but changed the spelling as we named her after a family member” maybe I’m just too nosy but I’d much rather read ‘we named our daughter Elisabeth over the more popular Elizabeth as we were honouring a family member’ as I don’t believe thats more outing than the first comment especially when it’s a fairly usual name.

If someone could enlighten me on any of the above, it would be greatly appreciated.

The posh one is a bit strange, as it tends to be said about names that were posh but have moved through the classes, so aren't posh any more.

The chavvy comment upsets someone who has a child with that name, or who knows a child called it.

There seems to be a need to have a 'nn' (nickname meaning short form of the name) and a bc (birth certificate) name, so that little Theo can choose to be Theo, Teddy, Dory or Theodore , should he wish.

You didn't ask specifically but the Welsh or Irish names tend to end in a bunfight. Usually because of arguments over pronunciation or spelling. Generally, only a small number of names are suggested and are ones that are mainstream and have been very popular over the last 50 years, or are terribly old-fashioned.

Your Elisabeth/Elizabeth example is probably because if you look at a poster's posts, you could possibly work out who they are. For example, they may have posted about their mean SIL, their DH's alleged infidelity, about what a great place Town_name is to live, etc.

If you express an opinion that isn't 'gush gush, Sebastian/Ava is a gorgeous name' or whatever, then you are not of the hive mind.

I agree on not saying the names. I’ve seen threads before where people say ‘my child has a names which is classic, everyone loves it and it’s very unusual’ and I’m always so curious to know what those names are. I wish people would name change to say what the the names are.

Popularity is an interesting one as well. I feel like people will post about popularity without actually looking at how popular the names are. People will call top 100 names like Arabella unusual or will say ‘when I called my child Evie/Oliver twelve years ago it was incredibly rare and now they are everywhere’ when they just mean they hadn’t realised how popular they were.

I feel like people don’t call names chavvy any more on here. It was rife about ten years ago. Now people tend to talk around it. I also remember a thread from a few years ago when someone said they thought Amelia was downmarket which kicked off a bit. People didn’t like names they liked being called chavvy!

@DuchessOfSausage
Thank you for replying, for me I wouldn’t be fussed either way if someone described a name I liked as chavvy or posh. But calling a name posh is generally more accepted on here anyways.

I really can’t understand why it would upset someone though? Jayden is name I’ve seen described as “chavvy” a number of times so I’ll use that as an example.

If someone were to post something similar to ‘OMG you named your child Jayden, you must been a right chav’ I could understand how that could be offensive however if someone posted ‘I’m not a fan I think it’s chavvy” isn’t really offensive at least to me anyways.

I’ll admit I would prefer a ‘proper / fuller’ name on the BC however wouldn’t bother me meeting a Tom or a Ben as opposed to a Thomas or Benjamin.

Regarding Gaelic names I’m not sure where I stand, typically I would always prefer the traditional spelling of a name however I probably wouldn’t chose I name if I was living somewhere people would struggle to read or pronounce if I’m honest. Ciara is one of my favourite names but I believe that is more common (used more frequently, in case I offend anyone haha) than Caoimhe for example so probably wouldn’t consider it but would possibly use Ciara.

I totally understand the outing thing if it’s an unusual name however if you’re not mentioning how your related to a person with a popular traditional name I’m not of the opinion it’s outing.

'Chavvy' is just classist drivel. 'Naughty boy name' is another favoured way of indicating a disdain of anything too working class. As though no naughty boys walk the corridors and quadrangles of Harrow and Eton.

As to why it's not seen as offensive to describe a name as posh, well why do you think? Britain is class obsessed with people in thrall to those they perceive to be 'posh', hence why the front bench is as it is and why 'posh' names filter down to the masses. Many people want a piece of that posh pie. Even if it's only by the vaguest of associations.

Chav is often used in a sort of sneering and patronising way. It's a classist insult.

@toastofthetown

Totally agree! I feel I’ve just wasted my time reading the comment or think a sarky comment in my head. Such as ‘I’m quite happy for you’ or ‘that’s nice’ but maybe that’s just me! as for me it’s just empty gloating.

Popularity- Again I’m not sure why this annoys people as I’d be pleased I was ahead or the curve! If they did genuinely rise in popularity.

You’re probably right - I tend to think of a name and search it. Some of the posts I’ve read have been pretty old, however skirting round the word ‘chav’ doesn’t offend people less, or does it? Would people be happy to have there child’s names/their name/their aunties best friends niece’s name or whoever called downmarket but be totally miffed if they described the name as chavvy?

I feel like people don’t call names chavvy any more on here. It was rife about ten years ago. Now people tend to talk around it. I also remember a thread from a few years ago when someone said they thought Amelia was downmarket which kicked off a bit. People didn’t like names they liked being called chavvy!

Most people on Mumsnet haaate my daughter's name. Anytime it pops up in a thread, it gets described as ugly and old - once someone even called it 'greasy' 😂 I can't get too worked up about it. I think some people can be slightly obsessive over their children's names, whether they've gone the traditional route (and you're marked as cruel for naming your child anything slightly unusual) or picked a name with some complicated spelling and 3 extra unnecessary letters.

But also, I suppose your child's name is a reflection of your taste so if someone called it chavvy, you might take that very personally. 'Chavvy' is much more insulting than 'old lady name'.

@ScribblyBaller & @PurpleyBlue

I understand the type of person people would be thinking of when they describe a name in a certain way, that’s not my question. My point is if someone is describing a NAME as ‘chavvy’/‘naughty boy’/‘old lady’ etc. Why is it offensive as they are not saying specifically that the person with that name is that type of person it’s just the association they get. I’m not sure I’m wording this correctly but I just can’t get my head around it? Maybe I’m more broad shouldered than those that do get offended.

It's offensive to have stereotypes of someone based on their name.

Chavvy and posh are equally classist, but it depends where you sit on the social spectrum as to whether you think one is more offensive that the other. There are people who wouldn't call their offspring Tyler or Kayden because these names have a certain working class connotation and equally others who would call their children Algernon or Clarence because 'posh wanker' - it's disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

I do wish that people would just give their DCs a name that they like, rather than tying themselves up in knots trying to find something that's unique (esp as there's absolutely no guarantee that it won't become popular in the coming months or years). As for the whole 'my DH's great great uncle came to this country in 1865 and so we want something that reflects that culture' - give it a rest..

Think it's because in general, on a lot of the other boards on Mumsnet there are a lot of snobs and a lot of judgemental people. So when a name is called Chavy, it's easy to assume that the person who is saying it actually would looked down on someone with that name and treat Demi-LEE completely differently to how they'd treat Elizabeth. I think the word chavvy is more jarring when it's coming from someone middle class who has certain misguided perceptions about working class people and how they live their lives. A lot of people on Mumsnet are like this I think. However most people on here say 'downmarket' these days 😳

If you really can’t understand someone being upset that their child’s name is associated with the underclass, poverty, and anti social behaviour, then you are ridiculous. I’m not usually so short but the wide eyed ‘but whhhhy’is really bloody annoying.

My point is if someone is describing a NAME as ‘chavvy’/‘naughty boy’/‘old lady’ etc.

Because they're making a value judgement against people who have that name. What about if a name was described as 'Too black' or 'Sounds too Muslim to me' or 'Irish names are gross'. 'Chavvy' makes a judgment against names that are perceived as working class. As though that's some shameful thing that should always be concealed by using Hugo and Arabella

Are you really struggling so much to understand why offence might be taken?

But the association of a name can be just as harmful. For example many POC have said for years that their names can hold them back in professional settings. I've read several accounts of people applying for jobs with their name and getting no responses and then when using a more "white" name (think Tyrell vs Tyler) they start getting interviews.

I don't think it's a case of people always being overly sensitive - being perceived as too black or too chavvy can have real implications.

Well gee, do you really think that a company that dismisses the CVs of someone they assume to be black is going to offer them the job if they secure an interview by having a 'white' name?

'Don't give your child a black name. The racists won't like it'.

@otterbaby haha I’m not even sure how a name can be greasy that’s a new one for me? Did they say what they meant by it by any chance?

Only thing I can think of is Gracie sounds a little like greasy? That’s if the name is even Gracie though that’s not a name i would describe as ugly or old - or greasy! Whatever that means!

I’m glad you don’t seem to be too sensitive over others opinions.

Personally I quite like ‘boring’ boy names like John, Jack, Edward but I wouldn’t say the same girl names for some reason. I think I mentioned earlier I would always try to use the traditional most common spelling of a name but wouldn’t think about a Ashley or an Ashleigh. However I would probably feel a little sorry for Ashleyi not for any other reason than constantly having to explain it’s not Ashley with an L-E-Y or an L-E-I-G-H but L-E-Y-I as people will probably ask again even if it’s spelled out as it’s very unusual.

I guess that makes sense, in terms of people thinking a name is a reflection of taste. Probably the best answer I’m going to get - thank you. Though I hadn’t even made this assumption as I must have been sub consciously thinking those that are offended by an opinion must be ‘chavvy’ / trying to be ‘posh’ / there child is naughty (and before anyone jumps on that bandwagon just badly behaved and not have additional needs or behavioural problems etc.) so that’s why there annoyed as they feel they’re being called out on it?

@PurpleyBlue again, they’re not stereotyping a person but a NAME.

You seriously don’t understand why calling a name ‘chavvy’ is problematic?

It’s a term used to belittle working class people... what’s difficult to understand about that?

Are you equally OK with calling some names ‘ghetto’ because you’re not using the term to describe an individual person?

@ScribblyBaller I'm pretty sure it's more about pointing out both conscious/unconscious discrimination regarding names. Not that they're expecting to get hired using a false name 😒

You need someone to spell out why the word chav is more offensive than the word posh? That one has clear negative connotations - stereotypically known for engaging in aggressively loutish behaviour and one doesn't elegant or stylishly luxurious

Of course she understands, it’s just a thread wanting to poke fun at kids called Jayden without actually starting a thread saying that

@Just10moreminutesplease

I’m not saying it’s okay to describe a name a certain way, I.e “ghetto” which isn’t something I’ve seen on here. What I was asking is why people get offended by such opinions. If people want to make prejudice judgments on NAMES why does it offend people of said names/ people with children with said names. I guess the best answer I’m gunna get is people believe it’s a reflection of their taste.

they’re not stereotyping a person but a NAME.

The point is that they are proving that they view the people typically described as "chavvy" negatively. It doesn't matter what they're applying it to.

@aSofaNearYou

they’re not stereotyping a person but a NAME.

The point is that they are proving that they view the people typically described as "chavvy" negatively. It doesn't matter what they're applying it to.

This.

again, they’re not stereotyping a person but a NAME.

Yes I understand I am not stupid.
But that name is usually attached to a person. And people do judge based on a name and this is wrong.

@aSofaNearYou

they’re not stereotyping a person but a NAME.

The point is that they are proving that they view the people typically described as "chavvy" negatively. It doesn't matter what they're applying it to.

This sums it up nicely.