Osian

[Edenember]

How is this pronounced? I realise there’s an anglicised pronounciation which is usually spelled Ossian pronounced how it looks. But is this pronounced o-shan/shun or Oh-shan/shun?

@KirstenBlest yes, I think it will be more of an un or en where I’m from, which I don’t mind tbh, because it’s just an accent thing. Those sounds are interchangeable here.

It's not accent and the sounds aren't interchangeable, but that's regarding the language.

It compares to something like Richard or Edward- where I'm from they are RITCH-add and EDD-wadd but that's not the way the names really sound, is it.
Why don't the parents name their DSs Rhisiart and Iorwerth?

@KirstenBlest I’d say it’s a multi-layered thing. There are definite mispronunciations and incorrectness / correctness to a degree, I.e a long o where it should be a short o as this convo started. We’re all capable of saying both types of o but one is right in this instance. My long o would sound different to a rp speakers long o though, although still recogniseable as an o. Then there are other things where it’s a feature of your accent to commonly and consistently pronounce a certain vowel or digraph differently to rp. Accental variation and non-standard deviations account for some differences in pronunciation, without the pronunciation being ‘incorrect.’ Scottish vowel sounds are a good example.

@KirstenBlest

It's the same name, same figure from Celtic mythology with Irish, Welsh and Scottish versions - but they're almost the same.

Unlike Merlin which is Myrddin in Welsh and Suibhne in Irish.

If an Irish person pronounces Ossian O'sheen - it's not technically incorrect, it's just the Irish version.

If an Italian person calls Alexandra Alessandra - it's not incorrect, it's simply the Italian version.

Welsh is a language not a dialect. A only has two sounds, a like in Welsh cath (welsh for cat) or a as in English cat. The long a in cath doesn't have an identical English sound. You also get the letter a in diphthong vowels, but that's a separate issue.

It isn't down to accent and doesn't compare to scottish dialect.

@TatianaBis, technically they are not the same name. If I insisted that Dafydd was pronounced David, I wouldn't be right, would I, any more than if I said that Dewi was pronounced Dafydd.

@KirstenBlest dialect and accent are two different things though.

Indeed they are.
Osian is pronounced Osian because it is Welsh. There is no way it would be pronounced Oshun in Welsh, because there wouldn't be a way of writing that sound in Welsh.

It's the same mythological figure. The same name that different branches of Celtic render slightly differently.

A Danish friend of mine is called Caroline. In Danish it's pronounced Caroleena, everyone in England calls her Caroline.

Oisin and Ossian and Osian don't really compare to Caroline and Caroline though do they?
If you had said Caroline and Charlotte, or Karl, Carlos and Charles, it would be nearer.

@ILoveShula and that’s fair enough. And I’m capable uttering the ‘an’ sound, obviously. But in my accent, in that name, it wouldn’t come out as ‘an’. I think there’s also something going on with stress here tbh, at least if the pronunciation audio I was sent is anything to go by. It seems to me in my (admittedly limited) experience that many 2 syllable Welsh names place equal stress on both syllables. Seren is an another example, where equal weight is given to both, ie much more weight on the ‘ren’ part than is given in English, which has the effect of emphasising the vowel in that part of the word. The word seven is the same. You really hear the vowel in the ‘en’ in Welsh and in most English accents it’s unstressed and clipped (and in my accent comes out ‘in’). I don’t think either party is wrong, it’s just different stress patterns and accent variations. If I was to insist on using the Welsh form Osian but then completely ignore the Welsh ‘sia’ = sha convention, I think that would be a different matter. If I wanted to ignore that, I should use the Anglicised version.

I've never heard that name. It's lovely. Is it too late to change DS(15)'s name?

Of course they compare: yne-eena, shan-sheen.

This kind of bananas pedantry is tedious tbh.

The stress is always on the penultimate syllable.
Seren is SER-en not Ser En or SerENNE

The only exceptions I can think of are Llandaf and Caerdydd. Llandaff and Cardiff follow the Welsh pattern. If anyone knows why these two anomalies, please let me know. I suspect that the names are closer to the original names.

@iklboo it’s lovely isn’t it ♥️

Lovely name. Said a lot in Keeping Faith!

@KnowlWay I love it!

I've only heard it pronounced OSH - an (but I'm in Wales so it may be different elsewhere). I've read it's well used in Sweden and Brazil too for some reason!

@IamnotwhouthinkIam really? I wonder if it’s a name that’s occurred independently then or whether it’s somehow migrated. To me, if I didn’t know it was Welsh it could easily be Arabic on appearance only.

The name certainly migrated to Sweden (along with several other names) following the popularity of James McPherson's epic 'poems of Ossian' at the end of the 18th century. Napoleon was a big fan apparently. He even suggested Oscar as a middle name for a godson - Oscar being the son of Oisín (aka Ossian) in Irish legend. The godson later became King Oscar I of Sweden.

Osian is indeed OSH-ann as Kirsten says. Great name, in my top 3 with Tomos and Macsen.

I'm in England so they would inevitably get Osh-un, Thomas and Max-un from some. But Osh, Tom and Macs are good nickname options. If I had a Tomos I'd call him Tŵm for short.

I think Osian is easy to pronounce once someone knows how it is pronounced, it's not immediately obvious if you're not familiar with Welsh but OSH-Ann isn't hard to remember. Go for it!

@LizzieAnt Thankyou for that 😊 I love Oscar as well. Prefer Oskar spelling as a nod to Viking ancestry but it would be a case of constant corrections.

@CaffiSaliMali I love it. It would never come out Osh-ann here, never ever. But I like it as Oshun / Oshen too.

I’m Welsh (living in England) and had this on our list.
OSH-Ann
But English people can’t pronounce the /ann/ sound unless it’s the stressed syllable. See also Bethan. They end up sounding like OSH-un, BETH-un

I like Twm too CaffiSaliMali, it is so cute.

Osian would not be arabic Edenember, as there is no O equivalent letter. The nearest would be Ushn.