Mumsnet's most loved baby names

[SmeleanorSmellstrop]

I feel like there are a bunch of names that Mumsnet posters unanimously adore. I have never seen Josephine or Rosa get a negative comment, for example. As for boy names, I think Edward seems really well-loved. What do you think?

@Violetlavenders, that's the german pronunciation. It's more like the rhyming with Emily in the UK.

Oh, I see.

How about Ottilia? That would be pronounced Oh-TEE-Lee-ah in English, as in German?

Personally I'm not keen on Ottilie rhyming with Utterly.

[quote CaffiSaliMali]@Wondermule - my Mam is a native Welsh speaker and my Dad is English so I'm half English, half Welsh. I would consider me using a Welsh name no different to me using an English one as I'm half and half. No-one ever says to me 'oh, don't use an English name though'.

I consider it rude when someone says 'oh I can't be bothered learning how to say 'Eleri', I'll call you Emily/Ellie/Elle instead'. Or just insists on saying it wrong with no effort made to learn it.

I also consider it rude when someone says 'eurgh, why are you called that?' Or 'your name is ghastly' Or 'your parents obviously don't love you or they wouldn't have called you that' (yes I have had all three of those comments).

A poster recently asked for opinions on four names, two of which were Welsh - Mari and Betsi and she received 'they're spelled Mary and Betsy' comments.

A few years ago a poster asked for opinions on Tomos, Harri and Rhodri and received similar comments. One of the first comments was along the lines of 'please spell them properly'. It's the assumption that the spellings are wrong which is rude, especially with the history of the suppression of the Welsh language and Welsh names. If someone said 'I assume those are cultural spellings but it may be easier to use Thomas and Harry ' that would be different.

There have been other threads of course but those two are ones I remember off the top of my head. You get similar comments on many threads on Irish names too - I recall a particularly unpleasant one where the OP's baby was named Cillian and OP's English family were refusing to pronounce it properly (baby's Dad was Irish) and she got pages and pages of 'it looks like Silly Ann, you should change it' comments.[/quote]
Basically all of those comments could be applied to English/mainstream names though. Look at the names picked apart on this thread for exactly the same reasons, they’re not Welsh.

As for Betsi etc, I’ve never heard of it and neither will 99% of people in England. You can’t expect the entire country to acquaint themselves with little known Welsh names in case they happen to encounter them. Of course they will assume it’s ‘Betsy’ spelled differently.

I would be able to understand your point if a poster said ‘Ew, don’t use that name, it’s Welsh’ but they’re not - they’re applying the same criticisms they have of English names to Welsh names, and you’re reading too much into it.

Plus I think all of our kids names have been called ghastly at some point 😂😂

Ottilia would get that pronunciation and doesn't sound so otterly.

It's a shame when some names get mispronounced and the 'wrong' version becomes mainstream

Alexandra.

It gets shortened to Alex. I knew 4 in school and used to really dislike the name, found it quite masculine.

@Wondermule it's not about expecting the whole country to get acquainted with 'little known Welsh names' it's about realising when you see a name that there are other cultures and other alphabets and other traditions and not an automatic English assumption that if it doesn't adhere to our phonetic rules or isn't spelt the way we expect that it must be 'wrong'.
Google is one click away if you don't recognise a name.
I've even heard people say about Irish names that they are just a random collection of letters!

The Welsh names that are mentioned on here tend to be ones that are popular or not in the slightest bit unusual in Wales.

They tend to not be well-received on here or there will be confusion.
The most recent one I've seen was the Fionn/Ffion thread.

There is usually rudeness on the welsh or irish names threads.

Rules of baby names on Mumsnet.

1. Must be anglised and in no way a non English spelling or name
2. Never suggest a Welsh, Scottish, Irish name spelt traditionally you're not allowed as English people it must be easy to pronounce and spell for the English
3. Name must be fuddy duddy and stuffy as possible ...the more old fashioned and enid blighton the better think Ethel, Percy, Edmund, Joyce
4. Woe betide anyone who likes or suggests a modern name. If you do you get shot down as 'common', 'down market' and 'chavvy' or it's a 'fad'
5. Never suggest or admit you like something in the top 100 as you'll be deemed as boring and too popular and common
6. You are not allowed to give a name that may have connections to a heritage you are not fully aligned with
7. You will carry favour if you pick the most pretentious greek mythology name (which contradicts point 6) because this proves you are educated and a better class.

[quote Drunkenmonkey]@Wondermule it's not about expecting the whole country to get acquainted with 'little known Welsh names' it's about realising when you see a name that there are other cultures and other alphabets and other traditions and not an automatic English assumption that if it doesn't adhere to our phonetic rules or isn't spelt the way we expect that it must be 'wrong'.
Google is one click away if you don't recognise a name.
I've even heard people say about Irish names that they are just a random collection of letters![/quote]
🙄🙄 I very much doubt anyone has said that a non-English name is spelt wrong. They may try to correct if they assume it is English and spelt incorrectly, but that’s a mistake rather than malice.

If I’m wrong do link to a relevant thread, but it sounds like you’re desperate to take offence where none is meant.

@Wondermule

Betsi thread

Gosh, I would have said that MNers are obsessive about only traditional spellings in traditional language and only if you have a personal relationship with that culture is acceptable. So you can't use a Polish name if you're not Polish, etc.

Or eg., must use Niamh not Neeve. Using "Neeve" would be a racist direct insult to every Irish person alive (according to MN).

[quote KirstenBlest]@Wondermule

Betsi thread[/quote]
Read it. Lots of compliments on the name, 2 posters suggested spelling it using a Y, one of them apologised as they clearly hadn’t read the OP properly. Don’t get the big deal?

@lljkk

Gosh, I would have said that MNers are obsessive about only traditional spellings in traditional language and only if you have a personal relationship with that culture is acceptable. So you can't use a Polish name if you're not Polish, etc.

Or eg., must use Niamh not Neeve. Using "Neeve" would be a racist direct insult to every Irish person alive (according to MN).

I know 😂😂

I think some of the posters enjoy being neurotic about it.

They post about Anglo-centricism but I’ve never seen a post asking for English names in the way so many posters ask for Welsh/Irish/Scottish names saying it’s ‘really important to them’.

I just picked a name because I liked it, I just don’t see it as a big deal.

Wondermule, that was just one thread, but as CaffiSaliMali pp it happens on lots of threads.
If you are not in the culture where the name is popular you will get a lot of comments about how crap your name is.

I remember the comments when DSibling gave her child a name that was not mainstream english. Comments like 'Why the silly spelling?' (the welsh spelling), 'Can't they give him a proper name like Peter or something?' (why would they give their welsh child an english name?).

Said child is now an adult and his name is suggested on nearly all the welsh name threads.

@KirstenBlest

Wondermule, that was just one thread, but as CaffiSaliMali pp it happens on lots of threads. If you are not in the culture where the name is popular you will get a lot of comments about how crap your name is.

I remember the comments when DSibling gave her child a name that was not mainstream english. Comments like 'Why the silly spelling?' (the welsh spelling), 'Can't they give him a proper name like Peter or something?' (why would they give their welsh child an english name?).

Said child is now an adult and his name is suggested on nearly all the welsh name threads.

You’re missing my point entirely. People aren’t making these comments because the name is from another culture (albeit one an hour up the road!). They’re making these comments because they probably think someone has misspelt the English version of the name. If you say ‘it’s a Welsh name hence the spelling’ and they still say it’s stupid, then yeah that would be out of order.

There are also loads of posters who criticise people using Anglicised spellings of Welsh/Irish/Scottish names. Is that rude as well? Or does this only go one way?

It's not clear cut, @Wondermule. You could use an anglicised version of a name and people find it acceptable (e.g. Evan or Ewan) or you could use an anglicised version (Neve or Shevaune) and people not like it.

What I don't like is the name losing its original pronunciation and the name becoming mainstream (e.g Ottilie, Caitlin or Bethan).

@KirstenBlest

It's not clear cut, *@Wondermule*. You could use an anglicised version of a name and people find it acceptable (e.g. Evan or Ewan) or you could use an anglicised version (Neve or Shevaune) and people not like it.

What I don't like is the name losing its original pronunciation and the name becoming mainstream (e.g Ottilie, Caitlin or Bethan).

So you could use a Welsh spelling (Betsi) and people find it acceptable, equally they might not like it and prefer Betsy. Why isn’t that just the same?

And you don’t have exclusive dibs on names. They don’t lose meaning just because they’ve become popular.

@KirstenBlest

It's not clear cut, *@Wondermule*. You could use an anglicised version of a name and people find it acceptable (e.g. Evan or Ewan) or you could use an anglicised version (Neve or Shevaune) and people not like it.

What I don't like is the name losing its original pronunciation and the name becoming mainstream (e.g Ottilie, Caitlin or Bethan).

Actually I just looked it up and Betsi is just a form of Betsy, which is actually an English name. So 🤷🏼‍♀️ please respect our culture and use the correct spelling... oh wait I don’t care, spell it how you like!

@Wondermule, Betsi is a form of Elisabeth, as are Bethan, Betsan, Beti and Leusa. They are not Welsh spellings of English names.

I don't claim dibs on any name but if you wanted to use a name like Ottilie in the UK, it would be nearly always be said as Ottily not the original pronunciation Ott-il-ee-uh.

[quote KirstenBlest]@Wondermule, Betsi is a form of Elisabeth, as are Bethan, Betsan, Beti and Leusa. They are not Welsh spellings of English names.

I don't claim dibs on any name but if you wanted to use a name like Ottilie in the UK, it would be nearly always be said as Ottily not the original pronunciation Ott-il-ee-uh.[/quote]
Betsy is itself an English name, it’s on babynames.com

Would people in Wales pronounce Ottilie as Ott-il-we-uh?

I doubt it. If I tried to read it as if it were Welsh, which it obviously isn't, I'd say it as Ot-TIL-yeh.

@KirstenBlest

I doubt it. If I tried to read it as if it were Welsh, which it obviously isn't, I'd say it as Ot-TIL-yeh.

Well, there we have it then. Every country/language mispronounces names of another. It doesn’t mean they’re being inherently malicious, oh, apart from when it’s English people of course.

@Wondermule, I wouldn't try to read it as Welsh though, because it so obviously isn't. I generally try to get people's names right.

oh, apart from when it’s English people of course.
I think that's quite enough. Goodnight.

Betsy is an English name but Elizabeth isn't. Betsi is therefore just as valid a variant as Betsy.
At least if you're going to make a sarcastic point, make sure it's correct.

@kirstenBlest I completely see where you're coming from. When a name is mispronounced and becomes mainstream you risk losing the original name entirely. Caitlin is a good example of that.
I could see the same happening to Ciara actually.

Imogen and Ottilie.