Cultural appropriation?

[snowynovemberr]

So I have been a bit curious about this for quite some time. I have always been very much against cultural appropriation and just wanted to hear everyone's opinions.

Would you say it's ONLY cultural appropriation if the name is from a usually oppressed culture? Or any culture apart from your own?

Names like Sergei, Soren, Stellan, Linnea, Anouk seem to be gaining a lot of popularity but for some reason I just can't be fully on board with them being used left and right with no connection to the origins of the name.

This is completely personal though and everyone is free to choose the name they like the most.

If you like it, use it. It may be a bit odd in the cultural context but anyone can work out there must be a reason it was chosen. Even if the reason is “I liked it”.

This is in general though. None of these names are on my list. We are still working on ours, probably sticking to names that honour our roots.

Whilst checking forums and everything I've seen these names pop a lot more often than before and was just wondering everyone's take on the subject.

I'm not sure, I struggle to find the line between appreciation and appropriation. We ended up using a very classic English name and a name with Persian origin for our daughters! I dont come from a place that is oppressed, so I dont think I could comment on what other people feel is appropriation to their own culture. Maybe I would lean towards saying its more appreciation, as a beautiful, nice sounding name is always a beautiful, nice sounding name no matter where its origins are?

Names like Sergei, Soren, Stellan, Linnea, Anouk seem to be gaining a lot of popularity but for some reason I just can't be fully on board with them being used left and right with no connection to the origins of the name.

Well there are lots of names with Jewish origins that are now common 'British' names. David, Jonathan, Ruth etc. etc. If this didn't happen there'd still be loads of Etheberts and Hegests running around the school playgrounds. Being of Anglo Saxon (ish) decent I wanted to call my son Cnut but that was vetoed... My wife is such a spoilsport.

I think our culture is so intermingled that there is no such thing. Things just go too far.
You can't use the name Mary unless you are Jewish because it is a Hebrew name. That holds true for all Biblical names.
You can't wear a muu-muu as a house dress because it is Hawaiian.
No moccasins unless you are American Indian.
Don't eat noodles unless you are Asian. Pizza is only for Italians.
To me, it sounds ridiculous.
We are one world. We see and hear and visit all areas of the globe. If we tried harder to become accepting and united with others we would be a stronger and kinder people.
I am part Norwegian, part Scot, part Welsh, and part Cherokee. I will gladly share all my culture with anyone who appreciates it. It's free!!

I absolutely love the name Yusuf. It’s my favourite name ever but I just don’t think it would work on a white British boy and would feel like I was appropriating a culture.

I think you need some ties to the culture. Both my DC have Scottish names and I often get odd looks and slightly accusatory questions about why but when I explain DH is Scottish it all melts away.

I think it's only a problem when other cultures start doing things which by the original culture could be considered denigrating.
For instance the wearing of Native American ceremonial headdresses in marketing campaigns for clothing or the use of a name that is considered holy or sacrosanct in some way.
If you aren't Scottish but call your son Hamish, it may be a little 'out there' for some, but I wouldn't say it's offensive (as a Scot). A still oppressed culture (I'm not going to start that convo about Scotland) may say differently about their names, I have no freedom to do that, but it certainly wouldn't include names like Stellan or Lars or Cnut (good one!)

Are those names from Danish detective series?
Cultural appropriation is when you casually use a name without regard for history. I'm not familiar with those names - if I was thinking of using them I would do the research.
In our family, we keep finding out that our hereditary family names are also Black names. We've learned a lot about history as a result, and it's okay bc we have a story to tell too. So we swap stories, that's cultural exchange.
How would I feel if someone named their daughter "Saoirse" casually? Or "Tadhg"? I don't know. It's complicated.
"Romana" or "Zigana" again would make me go hmmmm but not my culture.

It would lead to a lifetime of "Are you Swedish/Irish/[whatever]?" questions.

I think cultural appropriation is quite an American concept tbh. Personally I'm fine with it as long as the name is spelt/pronounced correctly (in line with original country). I would avoid names like Cohen that have a particular significance. Other than that - and that's really simple to do - crack on. I don't mind if a non-Irish person wants to call their kid Saoirse, Róisín or Ciarán.

@Clockstop

I think you need some ties to the culture. Both my DC have Scottish names and I often get odd looks and slightly accusatory questions about why but when I explain DH is Scottish it all melts away.

We’ve given DD2 an Irish name and have had some confused looks. DH’s entire family is Irish.

DD1’s name is Italian. We didn’t know that before she was born though. It was the BFing specialist, who was Italian, who told us when she was a baby. We just liked the name and have no Italian heritage. It doesn’t sound stereotypically Italian though.

Would you say it's ONLY cultural appropriation if the name is from a usually oppressed culture? Or any culture apart from your own?

I think there's a sliding scale:

1. From a culture your own nation is currently oppressing
2. From a culture your own nation has oppressed in the past
3. From a culture currently being oppressed by your political allies, if not directly by your own nation
4. From a culture currently being oppressed by anyone.
5. From a culture that has a long history of oppression.
6. From a culture that your nation has historically been in conflict with (but with relatively even power balance).
7. From a culture that your nation has never been in conflict with.
8. From a culture that is a politically dominant one.
9. From a culture that is currently oppressing your own.

I would avoid names in categories 1-5. I think it's fine to choose names from categories 6-9. It's worth noting that if you're English, then Welsh, Scottish and Irish names are not in categories 6-9.

I think you only need to be concerned about cuItural appropriation if you take something from a different culture to make money from it , or worse to mock it. Just like enjoying another cultures food, music or cinema etc in the UK isn't cultural appropriation, I don't think using their names are either, personally.

For example as a pp mentioned many Hebrew/Jewish names are so widely used no- one would think twice about naming their baby Samuel or Rachael, so I also don't think it makes a difference whether the culture is/was oppressed or not (as Jewish people can still suffer racial oppression/discrimination in the UK.)

For me it's about whether you like the name, and for your childs sake whether the name can be usually spelt/said correctly by the majority of people they meet. Sergei, Soren, Stellan, Linnea, Anouk are all relatively easy to say and spell, so while you might get the odd nosy question from people about why you chose that name (probably expecting an answer like Russian/Scandi grandparents or that the child was conceived there), I don't think it's a problem.

I find there are lots of names which are nice but I wouldn't use. I think it's more that they don't fit with surnames and sound a bit silly. I find that's the case for a lot of people so people using en masse names outside their culture isn't really an issue. So a few people calling their kids Romeo McKay are not going to alter people's perception of where the name comes from.

Generally, though I find the concept of cultural appropriation very American and most of the time the examples are silly. It's seen through an American lens where cultures like the Chinese are minorities in need of protection. So when a white American girl wears a traditional Chinese dress twitter explodes and criticises her for cultural appropriation - what harm is it doing? In 99% of examples, I don't see the harm and usually, the 1% is actual racism that should just be called racism.

I'm Irish and have no problem with non Irish people using Irish names.
Although I wish they would pronounce them properly it's sometimes not possible for non Irish speaking people so you just have to let it go.
Years ago I met a girl who introduced herself with her name and then told me her ancestry was Irish that's why she had that name....her pronunciation was so far from the original that I hadn't even realised it was supposed to be Irish

...no problem with non Irish people using Irish names.
Although I wish they would pronounce them properly ...
This.

Other points:
The name will probably be one that you first become aware of from there being an adult with that name - colleague/actor/athlete/pop star etc. e.g. Cillian (Murphy)/Saoirse Ronan/Sinead O'Connor/Niamh Cusack... so the names will have long since peaked in their original culture.

The mispronounced/misspelt versions becomes mainstream and the original falls from use.

Sören or Søren I think, not Soren.

My name is from a different country to my own as is Dd's. We are however the same ethnicity as the people in that country.

My name has a lovely story behind it and DD just because I liked it. DS is a name that like David sounds English but is from another place.

With the whole Scottish/Welsh thing, I would imagine every person on the UK has ancestry from each of the nations. (Im actually very little percent Anglo Saxon but would still go for a traditional name like Wilfred!)

With the whole Scottish/Welsh thing, I would imagine every person on the UK has ancestry from each of the nations.

I am 100% British and have 0% scottish, 0% english and 0% irish ancestry.

I knew a Soren now in his 40s who is Romany.
I thought it's a Romany name? Not that it really matters.

My actual name is used mostly in the U.S, Greece & Balkans.
My mum met an American with the name.
It's very unusual. I have no ties to those countries.
My surname also sounds foreign & I'm literally the only person with my name that I can find on Facebook!

On another thread, some posters said that they anglicised welsh first names when speaking to someone who wasn't a Welsh-speaker.
By welsh first names they meant names like Angharad and Osian, and they slightly adjusted how they said the names so they wouldn't 'feel silly'.

This sort of behaviour saddens me so much. It smacks of the Welsh Not, of oppression and of thinking that the welsh are inferior to the english.

Ah fair enough then Mike.

@Terralee

I knew a Soren now in his 40s who is Romany. I thought it's a Romany name? Not that it really matters.

It might be a Romany name as well, however nameberry.com/babyname/Soren This is the thing with the names, some are common to lots of cultures and that aren't always linked.