English forenames beginning with K - a socioeconomic marker?

[howtodrainyourflagon]

Db teaches y4 and has had a hell of a time last term due to a difficult class. The class have been hard work for every teacher that's dealt with them and apparently the root of the trouble is a group of kids who mostly have names beginning with K.

Db has a theory that k-names are usually associated with less educated parents and he's found that classes with lots of them are hard work. Apparently A-names and O-names are the hardworking ones who behave themselves.

I think db is clearly being driven mad by the little buggers but having pondered the k-name issue the only mc k-name I can think of is Katherine. Is there something in this theory?

I've encountered very bright people (all adults over 30) called Kimberly, Kristin, Katrina, Kelly, Kerry, Kaye, Keith, Kenneth, Kevin, Katherine, Katharine, Kathryn, Kate, Katy, Kyle, Karen, Katarzyna (Polish) and Kris (Belgian).

People who take a name traditionally spelled with a C and substitute a K to make it less 'boring', or who make names or spellings up, or go for names that were utterly unknown a few years ago are possibly also people who bring their children up to be individualists, with the result that the children struggle to obey rules at school. That's as far as I'd go with that theory.

I doubt you get many people at Eton called Charlotte or Sophie or Catherine either, Hermione!

There is a group of names used by all sectors of society e.g Emily. Nominative determinism is a theory not a fact and Freakonomics didn't present it as such.
Are other nations as hung up on names in the same way ? I have a very normal scandi name (that may even be fashionable with all the dramas!) but apparently I'm a minger in England.

There is a Monty on FSM at DD's school .

It's an ever moving target - it was T and C names that were teacher's nightmares when I was pregnant with my eldest. He's an O and DD1 is an A and having dragged them through their work myself I think they would change the pattern in your DB's simplistic formula.

T names really? Theodore, Tabitha, Tamsin, Thalia, Tadhg, Tristan?

Your brother sounds beyond stupid.

Tyler , Taylor , Tracy , Thalia , Trisha , Trina , Tiffany , Tia

Not forgetting Trevor

Thomas, Theresa, Thea, Tim...

Puzzled by the C names. I think of Charlotte, Catherine, Charles/Charlie, Camilla, Clare, Celia but I am no doubt behind the times.

Read Freakonomics en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freakonomics
It has a whole chapter on the impact of given name upon educational expectation and outcomes

Courtney , Chelsea , Chloe , Cheryl , Carly .
You can do the same exercise with most letters .

So droll. I know teachers named Katherine, Kathryn, Kevin and Kris.
Must ask them if they're allowed in the staff room.

Do the same exercise with most letters

Exactly which is why the OP's post is senseless!!!!

Exactly !

Oh not the K thing again!

I used to live in a more working class area (I would describe myself as working class, my parents certainly were). My daughter's school friends were all Williams, Harrys, Thomas etc. There was even a Ptolomy, FGS! (He was a naughty boy )

We have now moved to a more middle class area . The parents at school drive posh cars and live in big houses and most of the children at DDs new school are called Kayden and Jayden, Kai, Tyler, Mackenzie and Harlow (names that MN usually would name as "chav" or lower class names ie not "classic"*)
Therefore, I think your DB is talking bullshit!

*Disclaimer - not my own opinion.

There have been many chats on MN and in many a school staffroom about 'naughty names'. Whether or not people think the OP's DB is a snob or in the wrong job, rightly or wrongly people do draw conclusions about other people based on their names. Of course teachers do this more than other people because they meet a lot of names and get to know the owners of the names very well. Teachers also have enough common sense not to prejudge children based on their names and will also know hundreds of exceptions to the 'rules' they infer.

It probably is the case that K names, compared to A or O names, are on average more likely to be modern rather than tradtional or biblical and on average these names may appeal to parents who are not traditional or academic themselves, so some of these dcs may be from families who value education less than others.

OP's db is in one of the most stressful jobs there is. Believe me, he will have heard worse in the staffroom.

The Freakonomics section - which is based on huge empirical data sets is that its not the initial letter of the name that is an indicator so much as

• androgynous names ; girl or boy or boy used for girl or vice versa
• non people names ; months, fruit, places
• unusual/unique spellings ; such as the variants of Kayleigh

that predict bad behaviour and outcomes

Weirdly enough I have to say that the 2 " badly behaved" children in dd3 and ds' year 6's (Different years) both had K names.. '

However dd3 has an A name and is certainly not hard working or behaving herself :)

However best friend has a Katie and she is the most adorable creature full of fun and cheekiness whilst still being well behaved. (And bf is not uneducated)

I am now wondering about ds who has a C name.. where does that fit in grins.

My mum was a primary teacher and always reckoned that the "naughtiest" name was Daniel. All the Daniels I teach are lovely.

Can't think of any horrible K children either. This year I have a couple of Kirstens, a Kitty, one or two Katies and a Kalanie. All lovely. Perhaps I'm just a nicer teacher that the OP's DB

I have a K name and was ridiculously shy throughout school so never caused any problems. My best school friend also began with a K and was quiet and studious too. The theory sounds like a load of bollocks to me!

Not only is it bullshit, it's dangerous to have these kind of judgements when teaching children.

I'm a CM and have worked in early years for 10yrs, spanning all socio-economic groups. I have seen children, and parents, behave horrendously, from various groups of society. In fact, I don't even think certain names are reserved for particular "classes" anymore. E.g I worked in a £5,000 per term boarding school and we had an Austin, Texas, Chloe, Elodie, Karmani and Kelby. Along with the standard upper class names, Arabella, Ptolomy and Horatio.

Currently I live and work in a popular London borough where the very rich live next door to the families below poverty level, and there is no correlation between behaviour, name choices and family incomes.

Your DB needs to be challenged on his ill-informed dickheadish views.

Hmm, my name begins with k and I wad a pain at school, now i know why!

I've never known a well behaved Joshua in all the years I've been teaching, and I have met many. However, rest assured that I don't go through my class list every September thinking "oh God, another Joshua - I bet he'll be a nightmare." I just wait and see what the children are like. J st because I've never met a well behaved Josh doesn't mean that they don't exist, and hopefully one day one will be delightful.

Teachers do sometimes jokily discuss these things though (and worse). They're not saintly. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they are pre-judging your kids; they're just making observations and having a light hearted chat about it.

Wow my name begins with k and I was always top of my class with an IQ of 159.......this is very judgemental and totally wrong! How he can come to this conclusion is beyond me. Childrens behaviour has absolutely zero to do with their name. I am qualified to work with children and young people from birth to 19 and you cant judge someone because of a name. This is very uneducated and honestly quite a dangerous mindset as he will not strive to do the best for future children whos name begins with k. A teachers job is to teach regardless of name or ability and thay are supposed to do their best for every child...not judge them. They are just children

Kould you let us know what skool your brother works at so we kan avoid it?

k.