Why have the more elegant old fashioned names not come back round?

[Greythorne]

The old fashioned names which are back in fashion tend to be "cheeky chappy" names and scullary maid names (charlie, freddie, archie, alfie, tilly, molly, grace, evie, ruby, lily etc.)

Any ideas why the more elgant old fashioned names have yet to make a comeback?
Laurence
Julian
Byron
Edgar
Victor
Francis
Evelyn
Oswald

Clarissa
Camilla
Verity
Rosalind
Constance

I have no idea what you are on about, rooty!

I happen to like Charlie and Lily and Ruby and Stan.

I just don't think they sound elegant.

Nowt whatsoever to do with working class or otherwise.

Apologies for the typo. Scullery maids.

I would put Harry in the cheeky chappy category of names. And that's the third in line to the throne. Just like I would put Willy and Charlie in that category.

I think you might be reading too much of the class threads on MN. This is nothing to do with that.

Some names, such as Constance and Jocelyn sound sophisticated and elegant to my ears. That's all. But what do I know? I can't spell scullery.

Really. I know of a victor, Edgar, Laurence, evelyn and verity all under 8. I also know some across the ages ie: Laurence who is 60, 22 and 3

Seems to be back like many other names

The last few babies to be born to friends/ family are Conrad, Arthur, Thaddeus and Elizabetta

Byron? I don't think that is old-fashioned or elegant. It sounds American or Australian and fairly modern to me.

Was Byron used in the past as a given name?

I'm not reading any class threads! I have opinions formed outside Mumsnet, if you can imagine such a thing and cmon, your OP mentioned servants, for god's sake!

I am actually not crusading here anyway, I am genuinely offering my opinion on these name trends. All the 'elegant' names you list sound quite monied, to put it another way. And that plays a part in their popularity, or otherwise.

I think it's all about trends, and I very much get what you're saying about 'cheeky chappy' vs more elegant names.

The trend for the past few years has been for nickname-style names, diminutives, etc (especially for boys) and cutesy, frilly, vowel-ending names (I include 'y' in with that) especially for girls.

So Isabella, Amelia, Amelie, Sophie, Sophia, Evie, Ruby, Milly, Molly, Evie, Lily, Olivia, Arabella, etc, etc... Charlie, Alfie, Archie, Billy, Harry, the whole shebang.

But the trend is definitely starting to shift, which is why people on this thread are saying they're noticing more of the names in your original post.

Consonant-ending names for girls are starting to trickle in - Margaret, Agnes, Edith, Mabel. And yes, more formal, less nickname-y names are coming back for boys - Julian, Laurence, etc.

But it takes a while for those on or behind the curve to catch up with those ahead of the curve. People start to hear certain names more and more and they seep into the general subconscious. Suddenly the old connotations associated with the names give way, and they begin to sound fresh and current, and all of a sudden there's a new zeitgeist, and everyone thinks they're bestowing an uncommon, under-used name on their child ... only to discover everyone else is doing the same thing.

There's an eternal debate on MN about the rights and wrongs of putting a formal name on the birth certificate, and using a nickname for everyday. Lots of people feel this is pointless and use the same nn on the BC. This is fine, but without a shadow of a doubt, those names will sound very dated to the next generation. No real harm done and there will be lots of kids (then adults) in the same boat. But those sorts of names will very much sound from this era, by the time everyone has moved onto the more formal sorts of names.

Interesting idea re the political party in power, and whether it's left- or right-leaning. It probably does have some influence, but name trends are far greater than the confines of one country. Most English-speaking countries currently have many of the same sorts of names being popular at the same time, some of which include left-leaning political parties in power.

I really like Julian and Evelyn.

I know a little Edgar, Eddie to his friends - lovely name IMHO.

Though come to think of it his DM's an English teacher so she may have gone for the literary angle I guess.

I also know a Byron in his 20s.

I am from a working class family and my aunts and great aunts were called Elizabeth, Margaret, Rebecca. I consider those to be both elegant and from my own family experience, working class.

The scullery maid thing was meant to be evocative of an era, not a social commentary.

They're not working class names, they're just names, really. Very universally-used ones.

I mean, the Queen and her sister have two of those names.

sure OP.......just proffering my tuppence. I would agree that Elizabeth, Margaret and Rebecca are elegant and working class. But they are (to me) quite different from those you originally list. I have a sister called Elisabeth myself - working class family.

Biggles good post - I didn't mean to confine my observation to just the party in power (though I do think that the current government is reigniting class identities - though that is part of a more nuanced picture that I think includes a return to traditional values in political rhetoric) - but political / material / cultural. As you say.

It has always amused me that Evelyn Waugh's wife was also called Evelyn. That's very unlikely to happen now as Evelyn has been commandeered by the girls.

Seems that more names gravitate to the female side than vice versa. Shirley, Hilary, Vivian etc. Julian was a female name once though, wasn't it?

I know an Evelyn, but it gets shortened to Evie poss to make it more cheeky chappy!

I am a total name geek and find the subject (more than likely disproportionately ) fascinating.

We're now living in a different country from where the DC were born (UK) and it's interesting to note that we're subject to pretty much the same popular names - lots of Millys, Evies, Harrys, et al here, too.

The US does seem to be out on a tangent, with some of the same popular names, but the majority of which are really far more popular there than anywhere else. The trend of surnames for girls, many of which are quite masculine (e.g. Tucker, Taylor, even Lennon), for instance, is something which has only caught on in certain segments in other Eng-speaking countries... These names are quite distinct from the frilly, feminine Isabella, Olivia, Sophia-type names popular elsewhere.

Yes, and there are a few names that have long been popular in the UK which are virtually unknown in the USA. Joanna/Joanne for instance. And Nicola.

I've got a Rosalind. I do recommend it Also a Miranda and a Beatrice.

I like Augusta, Ada, Viola btw

I agree that the recent fashion for 'cutesy' names like Lily, Poppy, Archie, Alfie, Evie, Ellie, Tilly, Charlie is starting to fade. Any trend will eventually fall out of favour, especially one that has risen so quickly in popularity!

I think people are starting to look for more 'solid' sounding names and actually love all the names in your op! Also like Reuben, Quentin, Margaret and Beatrice.

I've got a Rosalind, too! Mine is mostly named after the co-discoverer of the structure of DNA, though, not to be elegant. Plus it was the only name DH and I could agree on.

Rosalind is fabulous.

Mine is after the Shakespearean character. We liked that about Miranda and dh and I could agree on it - so we kept the theme going for the other girls

Nice one.

My DD has a Shakespearean name.

I think you've just listed the difference between full names and nicknames and how they sound tbh.

Milly could come from Millicent or Amelia or Camilla for example or Frankie from Frances/Francis, Tilly from Ottilie or Mathilda, Lilly from Lillian, Evie from Evelyn, Alfie and Freddie from Alfred or Frederick.

I see as many of the 'elegant' names you list being used at the inelegant nicknames you also mention.