I'd like to try another name out on you!

[Umlauf]

For our dd due in September. We live in the Basque Country but we are English, and one of my favourite names here is Miren. Miren is the Basque version of Mary/Maria, and pronounced like it looks (although Spanish accents accentuate the vowels a bit more). I really like it and of course it would work well here but just wondering about when we move back to England, probably just before dd starts school. What do you think? Not dissimilar to Merryn which I've seen on here a lot?

Fwiw, other considerations, but none perfect, are:

Edith nn Edie (the Spanish won't be able to pronounce it at all)
Madeleine (makes me think a little of the mccanns)
Lyra (worried about the liar sound)
Isolde but DH has refused!
Penelope, but don't like nn penny!

I like it, I think it will get pronounced like Mirren, as in Helen Mirren or Mirin as in the Japanese stuff.

It doesn't sound out there. I like it.

Miren is lovely. i also really like Isolde from your list. typical that your dh doesn't like it.

Bravehearts wife's name x

I like Lyra, from your list. It's also on my list, but DH vetoed because sounds like Liar... :(

How about Nell as nn for Penelope?

All really nice. Know what you mean about the Spanish not being able to pronounce certain names - in the end I accepted I was "the wife"

the equivalent of Mirren in Scotland so not unknown in the uk - i think it's nice - can be a bit "schemey" in some parts of scotland but you are not living in one of those so that wont matter.

Ah you're all so nice! I teach a Miren, and yesterday the class asked about the name, and I said 'maybe Miren' and then Miren looked very smug and the others a bit put out, so then I said, 'or maybe Sara, or Maria, or Naia...' and went round them all! Bad teacher!

WHAT is schemey?! I've never heard that! Is it like chavvy? I'm ashamed to say I've never been to Scotland although I'd love to, so as long as the southern english don't associate it that way it should be ok. It's a very posh name here, but of course I won't be staying here... Grr it's so difficult!

Weirdly the name the Spanish consider to be very 'chavvy' is Jennifer, which IMHO is lovely and very unchavvy indeed!

Miren is very lovely :)

Yes, schemey is the Scottish Chavvy and then so is being a Ned. It's not overtly so, just a wee bit, but then so are quite a lot of the names people on here seem to love - e.g. Chloe and Bethany so I wouldn't worry about it. Jennifer definitely isn't any of those!!

I think it's nice, don't think it would be a problem in the uK.

Poppy is also a nn for Penelope

I like Miren and also think Mirry would be sweet (got to think of the nicknames English schoolgirls will give her!)

Do you want to to be pronounced Mirren, as in Helen? If so, the Miren spelling looks to me as if it ought to be my-ren.

Yes, it would be like Helen Mirren. Actually the Basque pronunciation is more like meee rEn, stress on first syllable, with the I and the e being pronounced fully (I as in see and e as in hen), whereas in England I'd expect the I to be an I as in pig sound, and the e to just be a schwa. I'd not actually thought about people seeing it as My ren, I wonder if that would be a widespread pronunciation.

Not sure a fan of poppy sadly and although I like Nell I don't like Nellie (elephant). I don't really like mirry either somehow! I'm not such a nickname fan in general although I do love Edie!

Trying to remember the rule about short/long i with a double/single consonant.

I think that my- ren would be the "correct" pronounciation......

Well its a complicated one! Technically, in grammar books, a single consonant after the letters a, e, i, o and u is followed by another vowel or a y, they are supposed to be ?open? and long, as in:

Fine, final, solo, Peter, sarah etc.

Otherwise the consonant should be doubled, so Mary is long and Marry is short.

However if the rule was applied universally, Karen would be pronounced care-en (like Sarah), Keren would be pronounced Kee-ren (like Peter) and Miren would be pronounced as you suggested, like final of tiger.

Is not just names though, things like 'city' should by sy-tee, habit should be hay-bit, very should be veeery, civil should be sy-vil. Why is the name Sybil not pronounced Sy-BIL actually?!

So its not so black and white! I could do Mirren to avoid confusion but it loses its Basque root and takes on a Scottish one, and I like the Basque root. You raise a really useful point though seeker as I wouldn't want my child to face constant correction. It's definitely one to mull over carefully, as I'm aiming for a name pronounceable in English, Basque AND Spanish and its a minefield!

Sorry I do realise this looks very pedantic, but I have literally been teaching this topic only today so its at the forefront of my mind!