What exactly do people mean when they say a name is 'trying too hard'?

[CharlotteLucas]

Just curious, really, as I've seen this response to some names on here and had never come across it in RL - what do you mean by it, and can you give an example of a name that is, in your opinion, 'trying too hard' and why?

I mean, I assume we all make an effort with our children's names - no one just sticks a pin in a book of baby names! Mightn't Elizabeth have taken just as much thought as Persephone, even though it's a more usual name?

Or is 'trying too hard' about social aspiration? What if, say, an earl calls his son Sholto or Peregrine or Damascius - can a name still be 'trying too hard' if the namer is on top of the social pyramid already?

Charlotte you have identified a problem with MN (and other online forums): no-one has any real idea of a poster's social position (other than what the poster reveals about themself). Even then, we don't know if what is said is 'true', or an accurate description.

A lot must be, then, our own assumptions about names.

MT

My daughter's name is 'trying too hard', but I don't care. It's exactly the sort of long, girlie, princessy name I always longed for but didn't have. I lie awake at night in awe of her name and its timeless, ravishing beauty - I don't care what people think of me for choosing it!

Oh Anonymumous, if I had a girl I would have named her Valentina, as it denotes courage as well as feminity and strength....

but I have boys :)

Is your DD Anastasia or Cassandra?

Mama tonic that is why people ask opinions on baby names though, to did out what the popular assumptions regarding it are. No need to take offence, people shouldn't go on online forums if they are going to take what strangers say personally, let alone ask for opinions.

Silk, I completely agree with you, but from my experience from using this and a few other forums, people often forget this. They take a lot of what is said - especially neative comments - very personally. The amount of slanging matches bunfights that I've read here are shocking! Particularly on Baby Names. I think it's because naming is so subjective, and there are so many grey areas, too.

MT

"but how can you decide this online, when all you have to go on is a post that says 'What about the name Cedric/Peregrine/Araminta?' and you can't tell anything about what the poster's real self or social status, so can't say whether they are trying to present a posher or edgier version of themselves via an aspirational name...?"

Absolutely. Same with a poster loving the name Chardonnay. Or Jack, or any other name for that matter.

We all have different tastes, backgrounds, have grown up in different places/countries and thankfully have different tastes. Just like we read different style books, wear different clothes, prefer different food, we also have different name preferences.

How on earth can a random bunch of internet users (with possibly completely different tastes) state that a certain name IS 'too chavvy', 'too try hard', 'too foreign sounding', 'too posh', 'too much like the school bully when I was at school 20 years ago' etc!

And actually, I've learned that making assumptions based purely on someone's name can be misleading, so I try not to pre-judge people on that basis. But somehow on mumsnet there is this strong need to 'label' names.

But that is because the nature of the internet forum is one of solipsism really - none of you are real people, you're just digital responses for my amusement, randomly generated by some program! That is why people can be way more thoughtless and insensitive and dumb than in response to a question asked irl by a real human being that one knows anything about. Filtering is optional on here, caveat inquisitor.

that they are trying to hard themselves

Yes, unabandoned honesty usually reigns here, particularly in Baby Names as it is one of the most subjective forums on MN. As there is no real comeback if something disagreeable is typed, more upfront (shall I say?) responses are common.

In some ways, this is positive: we yield responses that we wouldn't ordinarily receive in RL, so we get the 'harsh' truth. But, the flip-side is that there is no screen of filter for either ourselves or the digital others we communicate with because we don't have to deal with the fallout. Our own prejudices can come out in negative and/or hurtful ways, and people often take what is said personally. It's difficult not to, really, as I have read some quite nasty comments (some directed at me, others not). In the most, our prejudices are controlled in RL, but on here, they don't have to be. Quick responses in type require immediacy, and this lends itself to snap judgements: 'Persephone = snobby; Demi-Lee = chavvy" or whatever.

Well, these are my thoughts at least early on this Monday morning!

MT

To me, it mostly covers a name that is obviously trying to be unique and/or 'classy' but fails, so quite subtle.

So I would include things like 'Jayden' (and Kayden, kaiden, etc) 'cupcake', 'loocie', 'Teddie' and so on.

But then I am very judgemental and Ia probably bu

"I'd say it was choosing a name that says more about the parents' aspirations/desire to be cool or edgy than it does about the practicality of living with that name."

That is exactly how I see it LeBof. I also think alternative spellings of names that are more well known are also "try too hard" and merely make people think the parents are illiterate.

I have an old friend who is very socially ambitious. She comes from an ethnic-minority background. Her DCs have first names that are highly connotated with a very specific socio-cultural group - the one she would like to be a part of. Definitely TTH!

"I'd say it was choosing a name that says more about the parents' aspirations/desire to be cool or edgy than it does about the practicality of living with that name."

I agree with the above. I would say it means parents who name their children with the intent of appearing cool and hipster.

However, I think there then becomes this delicate balance between TTH and then giving your child a bog standard name. I am never sure of names, particularly boys names, which strike the right balance. For example, the names Nicholas, Joseph, Thomas, William, James etc are all names which are NOT TTH, but are perhaps quite popular and would be considered "boring" by some. So more "unusual" (less popular) names that I would consider, such as Rufus, Felix, Albert, Barnaby, Ernest etc would be classified as TTH (and perhaps rightly so?). Girls names however, I find there are really quite a large number which strike the right balance and are not overly popular but are not TTH - such as Helena, Camilla, Elizabeth, Marion, Josephine, Victoria etc.

It's quite a dilemma!

To quote, I think, Graham Norton "A name is not a password- it doesn't have to be a unique combination of letters and numbers....."

No, names need not be 'unique', but the less widely used the name is, the more likely it identifies a person.

This worry about 'trying too hard' seems a very British one. As does the worry about names being too 'chav'.

Maybe because we still have an entrenched class system?