Since when did imaginativeness and....

[seeker]

.....uniqueness become essential criteria in choosing a baby's name? Last 20 years? And why?

That's an interesting point, Greythorne. After all, it makes sense that you'd want to give your child a sense of connection with their community. We all do it without really thinking, I imagine. I certainly wanted to find a name that worked in both English and German for my DD.

Anyway, I think LaToya Jackson is doing marginally better than Harry Bloggs down the road, so it really can't matter THAT much, can it?

And what about Condoleezza and Barrack? They're not doing that badly either despite their rather unique/imaginative names.

And Boutros Boutros Ghali.

Hmm- interestingly ethno-centric viewpoints there...

I think people tend to chose names for their children that they like.
There may be some people that chose a name to impress others but that name is just as likely to be Angus as it is to be Dontey-Maliki.

Angus's parents may be desperate to put across their 5th generation celtic roots in order to make themselves seem interesting and earthy.
Or they may just like the name Angus

Little DM jnr's parents may be searching for the perfect name to help him become a gansta rapper but they may just think its a beautiful name for their beautiful new baby.

There are still thousands of people who feel constrained by tradition, religion and family pressure to name their child something 'normal'

I prefer to call my kids whatever the hell I want to and take great pleasure in chosing beautiful names for them.

What others might think of them doesnt bother me a bit. If people are going to judge them by their name they are not people whose views matter to me.

My son will not be stopped being a peadiatric oncologist because he has a bit of a 'rocknroll' name.

"If people are going to judge them by their name they are not people whose views matter to me."

Absolutely. I also wonder why some people care so much about other peoples' name choices.

"If people are going to judge them by their name they are not people whose views matter to me."

I think the point is more that if someone reads "Chardonnay Calpol Facebook Smith" on a CV, and decides that a) it wouldn't suit their business image to have an employee with "Chardonnay" on her nametag and b) the applicant's parents must have been thick as mince and therefore it's likely the applicant is too, and thus rejects the applicant out of hand, then they may well be people whose views matter whether or not you think they should.

Yes, unfortunately many (especially British) people are still very judgemental about names.

I must be in the minority of employers then! I work in the film industry and regularly work with people called:

Jason x 2
Wayne
Chantal
Willie
Tammy x 2
Wendy x 2
Bonnie

These people are fairly high up - ie producers, heads of department etc.

I tend to go on personality, creativity and past work when recruiting. The name is completely by-the-by.

Yes, but the film industry is one thing - retail banking or product management or law is something else altogether. I can imagine a film producer called Chardonnay, but a barrister?

Perhaps people who give their children really out-there 'imaginative' names fantasise that they're going to grow up and have fabulous, unconventional, creative jobs. The reality of course is that many of them will be quite ordinary people and will spend their lives at a disadvantage when applying for jobs as secretaries or bank clerks.

I also work with people called:

Fritz
Hugo
Andreas x 2
Gordon
Peggy

Valentin
Fabrice
Florian

And a lot of 'normal' named people such as:

Chris
Rick
Mike
Dave

I do think it's a bit depressing that a new parent might think 'I'd love to call my baby Rainbow but she's probably end up being a bank clerk so I'd better stick with Laura'. Not that Laura is a bad name (actually like it a lot!), but putting that kind of downer on a baby with the potential to do and be anything they set their hearts on is a bit... maybe it's just me!

The problem is that people do judge. They shouldn't, but they do. And do you actually want to set your child up for that sort of judgement? There is loads of research to show that some names are more likely to get jobs that other names. Wrong. But true.

I know you're right. But I do still find it depressing!

My own name is damn weird, as are my sisters (hippy parents). We all run our own businesses and are doing pretty well. And with no formal education either (home-schooled in a half-arsed fashion). Was never judged either on name or education so far, so personality and sheer bloody-mindedess must win out sometimes.

I think it's the opposite way round, Janoschi.

I think it's less about 'well I think she'll probably be a bank clerk so I'd better give her a boring name' and more 'I want her to be able to develop as an individual and become whatever she wants to be in life without people making loads of assumptions about her'.

Someone called Laura has, in my opinion, more of a chance to move through life without people jumping to conclusions about what she's like than someone called Rainbow.

At the end of the day, I think names should give the child a reference point for developing their own individuality, rather than being a platform for the parents to express theirs.

My kids are black.
And working class
One is disabled

They are going to be judged my arseholes their entire lives.

I refuse to make them whiter, more middle class or less disabled. Why should I placate the judgers by chosing naice names?

It makes no sense to me. Someone is bigoted, unreasonable and wrong so we give into their prejudices?

nah.

by arseholes

not my arseholes

that is entirely different

ha ha

Theoretically I agree. But I honestly think that doing something which you know might well make your child's life harder is a mistake. I'm not saying that you should go for John or Chloe- or whatever the top 2 names are at the moment. But a name that might mean your child doesn't even get to the interview strikes me as being a principle too far.

I know we disagree on this subject seeker, I think we end up wrangling about it on all of these threads

I feel have a real issue with the horrible judginess about 'chavvy' names. It does my head in. I didnt know it properly exsisted until I joined MN. ( I mean generally - not you)

They have done those experiements where applicants with Asian, African names have sent in duplicate CVs etc using a Westernized name. The Western names got interviews, the 'ethnic' ones didnt.

I think this may be changing now.

People from BME backgrounds are far, far less likely to Westernize their names now. Years ago they would have done. They would do it to make it easier for their colleagues to get their mouths round.

It doesnt happen now and if a teacher declared 'Well I cant call you that' the way they used to when I was at school (not to me but my immigrant peers) there would a bloody outcry.

I feel its the same principal. Why should a parent not chose Chantilly-Grace incase a bigot in 18 years decides it is beyond the pale?

I do understand what you are saying. I just do not think we should let go of our personal freedoms in order to placate some academic dinosaur.

What about mc families living somewhere like Hackney with its huge cutural and economic diversity? Do you think they should reconsider Flora and Humphrey and use Kelly and Conner instead? In case their kids are percived as posh by half the kids in their class and their parents?

You might. I dont and I doubt a lot of people who deride K'ante and Tashina as chavvy would.

In my experience most international companies (even in banking!) are far more open minded actually. Competition for jobs is on a global level and lots of employees have unusual/foreign names - in fact these applicants are often preferred as they speak other languages and are more flexible (having gone abroad to study/work).

So this 'judging' and 'labelling' people according to their names may well occur in small/medium British companies (I can't judge as I've never worked in one), but it certainly doesn't happen in multinationals nor outside of the UK. Just look at succesful Americans - their names range from Condoleezza, to Barack to Dwaynes etc.

That is one reason I'd like my kids to spend some time of their education abroad - that they become a little more open-minded and tolerant.

But I hold interviews all the time (working with freelancers on very short contracts) and frankly, the ones with odd names are the ones I remember. Which is damn helpful.

There's a certain fuzziness as to which Steve or Laura I interviewed when, whereas Axel, Sibbo and Fizz are very clear and don't even need surnames. I do find that handy when faced with 100s of names, having to recall quickly who does what and how good they are at it.

Surely it's not just the film industry that recruits freelancers on short contracts though?

I judge people in loads of ways but can honestly say that names don't bother me, nor anyone else I know who does my kind of job. If any of your kids end up in film, DeVere, I can say they'd be just as welcome whether they're called Mo-Nique or Mary. But they'd struggle if they had the personality of a boiled potato .

As DeVere says, things are changing. They're actually changing very very fast. Who knows how the job market is in 20 years time - it's a damn sight different now to how it was in the 80s-90s.

I think if you genuinely love classic names such as Mary, Grace and Thomas, then that's what you should name your baby. But I think it's sad when someone actually loves a name perceived to be a bit chavvy or hippy but feels pressured by people they're never actually going to meet to change it to something normal because of a situation that isn't even set in stone anyway, and in some industries (ie film, music, art) is actually completely the other way around.

Bottom line is to use the name you love. It's the personality of the baby/child/adult that will take them places, not their name.