American looking for UK Answers

[EmilyRoo]

Hi,

I'm changing my name (from Emily-perfectly good name but there are 4 other on my floor) and I am looking for UK input on some names I am considering, and would also like suggestions for other names in a similar vein. I'm looking for a longer, elegant and unusual name. I plan on relocating to England in a few years and would like to know how these names are perceived there, if possible.

Cordelia
Rowena
Clementine (my favorite right now)
Penelope

Any more suggestions would be lovely!

-Emily

Class, haharhar.
Okay, in the USA "class" is linked to income (some Brits think this is very vulgar, but makes sense to me ). Most Americans (?85%) think of themselves as middle class. They aren't truly poor (not desperate) and they aren't filthy rich (probably wouldn't fly first class, or not very often, anyway). And you can change in your lifetime with changes in income, it's not set in stone from your childhood.

In England, class is about values, tastes, inherited wealth, & social position (certain professions). You keep the same class all your life regardless of changes in circumstances. Working class = people who have to work to make ends meet (not much ££ inherited), and "upper class" usually means links to the historic aristocracy (manor homes & titles), although you can be very poor and still be upper class. No aristocratic link and the best you can be is "middle class". Most British people describe themselves as working class. Katie Price who is filthy rich & an international celeb, John Prescott who was deputy Prime Minister, Sir Philip Greene who is filthy rich & manager of a huge empire of shops: these people are usually deemed working class, because of their humble origins, although it's fuzzy what class their children may belong to. Middle class is widely derided as over-educated & made neurotic by their social aspirations. Disowning your class origins is tantamount to leaving a religion: I kid you not. People are supposed to be proud of their class & want to stay in it (Edwardian values?).

But the perceptions are changing, there is a lot of modern debate about what does "class" mean in modern Britain.

By American standards, my household should qualify as middle or upper middle class. My English husband insists that we are working class because we don't have influential positions (like vicar, teacher or doctor).

I have lived here 20 years and I still struggle with it all.

Roseanne Barr in the TV show would call herself middle class, I promise. So would Fraser Crane (if Americanised enough). We don't have "working class". Poor - middle - rich are the American categories.

Clementine is a lovely name and much the prettiest of the four in the OP.

ragged, yes I'm sure she would, I was offering an English interpretation of those characters.

Good overview. I'd differ only to say that plenty of people do define themselves as middle class quite happily and see this as normal and probably the majority, not aspirational. Also people do change class during their lifetime, typically in the baby boomer generation, moving from working class backgrounds, through education to skilled jobs and a middle class lifestyle. Many of them acknowledge this quite happily but, as you say, people do cling to their roots, or even their parents' roots in an absurd and confusing way and there is a lot of pride and inverted snobbery about being working class. Working class is traditionally manual labour, now unskilled or low-skilled work. Skilled work and definitely anything requiring a degree is middle class. 'The professions' (doctor, lawyer etc) form a small proportion of the middle to upper middle class.

Anyway, as an American with a degree and passport you'd definitely be middle class OP, as are the names you're suggesting. It's just that there are some names you mightn't hear outside the upper middle, privately educated stratum and whether you'd want to go for one of those might depend on where you'd be working and who you'd want to fit in with.

The designation of 'posh' or 'jolly hockey sticks' is always 'posh in a negative way' if that is not the class of people to which you belong.

As an American, you will never belong in any part of British society. You will be the quintessential fish out of water, not because British people are unfriendly but because you will be 'hard to place', which means you will not have any identifying accent or attitude or vocabulary or look about you or style or taste in even little things, that all indicate where someone belongs in the British scheme of things.

If you intend to ditch Emily and pick something else, I would go for something that could sound American, because that is how you will be known anyway no matter how long you stay in the UK:

Emery
Emerson

Whew, good thing I'm outside it all [b]ragged[/b] because I'd never be able to keep that straight! I'm working towards becoming a creative director/editor in either film or the fashion industry, while writing novels and attempting to get them published.

Glad to be informed about the class thing, thanks for the overview! It's interesting, to say the least, partially because to an American it is mostly unfathomable.

Going back to my list, I'd welcome opinions on these;

Clementine
Rowena
Jemima (might be able to brave the syrup connotation!)
Esme (ez-may) -This one has bite, and fits me quite well, except it's not 3 syllables.

What sort of names would be mostly used by the MC then? I know the aristocracy generally goes traditional-classic, I mean those who are a rung below. :)

I think names are a lot more fluid now than they used to be, and some names are used across all classes (Elizabeth, Charlotte, Emily, Eleanor -Ellie is very popular, for example).

Within your list, Esme has become more popular recently (possibly because of the Twilight films), but is not common amongst women in their 20's. I like Jemima, from your list - I think of Jemima Khan. I do think you need to consider whether your new name will work in the USA, as well as here, because presumably you will return there at some point, if only for visits.

While some names are very upper class imo (Arabella, Camilla, Araminta), a lot of names you could choose and be any class. What I would add though, is that some names are seen as very 'chavvy',or would be quite 80's, which you would want to avoid. These names are ones like Kayleigh, Jamie-Leigh, Leanne, Deborah, Tracey, Sharon (I really like some of those names, but would never choose them because of negative connotations here).

I have probably offended loads of people with that list - apologies. I don't think the negative connotations are fair, only that they do exist. I got landed with the name Sarah, and there are thousands of us in our 30's!

Ok, well Esme is 'Ez Me' not May, emphasis on first syllable, and fits the nice, uncommon but unpretentious criteria. Jemima is nice and not overused. If you really like Clementine, do it, just be prepared for irritating people to sing at you.

Your chosen professions are utterly middle class in the middle to upper range (but also likely to be a great example of the 'poor but posh' paradox, in the early years at least! You'll aspire to Waitrose and the farmers' market but shop at Lidl and in charity shops - but I imagine the 'struggling artist' archetype might appeal to your romantic ideals, on the way to becoming a more established metropolitan bohemian?)

For that reason, you'll be surrounded by people from upper middle class backgrounds supported by their parents, with a few more 'ordinary' people doing multiple jobs to get by.

Arty professions are of course more liberal and flamboyant than average, so you can get away with more outlandish names. Also you'll be your own product, marketing-wise, so something memorable may be an advantage.

I feel we haven't fully illustrated the 'upper middle only / jolly hockey sticks' style we keep referring to. The names ragged's given you are 'working to mid-middle' (first list) and 'solidly middle' (Victoria etc). The sort of thing that would signal to me 'upper MC, probably private school' are Venetia, Fenella, Arabella, Portia, Sophia (until recently), also Sebastian and defnitely Peregrine and Persephone.

It gets confusing again though because upper MC / upper class use very nice, simple names too, like Lucy, Alice, Clare. Also because some very MC names become suddenly popular at all levels e.g. Olivia, Charlotte, Emily and finally... there is a category of more flamboyant name that can be either upper or lower end class-wise but is unlikely to be middle e.g. Talullah.

I am professionally offended that you would consider changing your name from Emily.

...and agree with kb that it is all more fluid now, also my 'upper MC' illustrations encompass upper class too.

Btw we're going to need to know the answer, so we can look out for 'Clementine X' on film credits in future!

"I feel we haven't fully illustrated the 'upper middle only / jolly hockey sticks' style we keep referring to. The names ragged's given you are 'working to mid-middle' (first list) and 'solidly middle' (Victoria etc). The sort of thing that would signal to me 'upper MC, probably private school' are Venetia, Fenella, Arabella, Portia, Sophia (until recently), also Sebastian and defnitely Peregrine and Persephone. It gets confusing again though because upper MC / upper class use very nice, simple names too, like Lucy, Alice, Clare. Also because some very MC names become suddenly popular at all levels e.g. Olivia, Charlotte, Emily and finally... there is a category of more flamboyant name that can be either upper or lower end class-wise but is unlikely to be middle e.g. Talullah."

I think names no longer reflect 'class' (which in itself seems be becoming less relevant) in the UK. Names at our State Primary include Sebastian, Sophia, Tiggy (Antigone), Quentin, Connor, Tyler and Alexander - a whole range of names! Equally I know some privately educated kids named Tom, Alex and even a Jayden.

I honestly don't think we can say someone is necessarily 'posh' or 'chav' based purely on their names!

And it seems the OP is not concerned about 'class' at all. She seems to be purely keen to avoid being one of many Emilys sharing her name.

I can relate to that very well. I have a vey common 1970s name and always had to add an initial or other modifier (often little X) to my name. Even now at work it can often get confusing sometimes.

Personally I love the names Clementine and Cordelia - and there aren't many 20-30 year olds around, so would be a great choice op!

Emily is a good example of a timeless, classless name.

OP what is your middle name? Could you not use that instead?

Jollybear, I don't think op is thinking about class. I think she just feels that there are too many other Emilys.

So why did she specifically ask us about class half way down the thread?! People had been warning that some names sounded 'posh' in a negative way and she wanted to know what that meant.

I warned it was a potentially endless and unrewarding diversion... before plunging into it (because I was bored! but, you know, trying to be helpful).

I do agree that both class itself and its relationship to names is becoming far less obvious or relevant. (This is not the place to start a discussion on the marked decline in actual social mobility over the last 40 years... and I'm not bored today!).

Ahh gwan lottie . I'm bored, at least until 2pm, when I intend to watch the fabulous 'Pregnant in Heels' on Bio, about over indulged pg women in New York. If I'm reading about social mobility, I won't have to do any housework!

My middle name is Rose, which is pretty, but my last name is one syllable, so it doesn't sound right, to my ear.

Thanks lottiegb for the illustration of MC names! My first and foremost intention for changing my name is to avoid running into others with the same one. I do want to avoid names with downright negative associations, and I don't really mind if are "posh" because it doesn't really apply to me anyway.

(Thanks for baring with me on the class topic, just wanted to clarify some questions I had about it!)

More name suggestions would be much appreciated. :)

Renee, Renata or Anastasia (essentially 'reborn')?

Rosemary?

Dear OP: as an American living in the UK I would like you to consider how you are going to move here! It isn't easy and it's getting harder all the time. The best option is to find a Brit to marry. :)

That out of the way, have fun choosing a new name. Agree that they all read as very posh. :)

I like Alexandra, Sophia, Abigail, Emilia, Louisa, Camille, Genevieve, Seren (Welsh), Carys (also Welsh).

I like Jemima. Esme is a nice too but I think will pose too many pronunciation problems. Clementine is lovely but I don't think it is a particularly wearable name. Rowena is a bit dowdy to me. (I do really like Rowan - mostly for a boy - though.)

Friends of mine in their 20s with (what I consider) uncommon names include Felicity, Annabel, Flora, Ffion, Angelina, Geraldine, Yolanda, Frances, Faith, Veronica, Vanessa, Joy, Tessa, Miriam, Verity, Maria, Maud, Charis and Susannah (Susie). They are all good names and I don't think would raise any eyebrows in the way Clementine might. I realise not all of them meet your criteria but they'll help you blend in a lot more. If you want to stand out, I'm probably not the one to be advising!

But it isn't entirely income based in the US. The class thing, I mean. :)

Reality stars are rich but have no class. A poor literary reviewer has no money but lots of genteel-shabby sort of class.

One of my best mates is called Cordelia and she isn't especially posh. It's a lovely name. I call her Cornelius and her family call her Coco.
I would go for that - I am biased though