A Public Service Announcement: if you are middle-class and live in an area with a high proportion of Boden-wearers...

[PollyMorfic]

...you would be well-advised to take note.

Following my compulsory attendance at 7yo dd2's first music 'concert' (I use the term loosely, and yes I was bored) I whiled away the time doing a little research on the list of 'performers', which led to the following conclusion.

If you are middle-class and live in a reassuringly expensive but still very slightly boho area, possibly but not necessarily in London, and are currently pregnant with a girl, you are probably considering one of the following names:

Maya
Mia
Pia
Tia
Ella
Ellie
Lily
Lola
Evie
Edie
Esme
Izzy

These are all nice names. But everybody else thinks so too. So if you want to avoid in future years having half a dozen Boden-clad little mites do a double-take every time you call one of said names in a public place, you may wish to consider branching out a bit.

Eye thang yew.

I live in a "non London" middle class area and I can confirm all these names still being used. I think the whole "Flora, Beatrice,Eliza" cockney flower girl/scullery maid type names is more of a London thing isnt it?

Ive pretty much always grown up in working class areas and apart from the occasional really dumb upper class waste of space had never been aware of class at all. I now live in a middle class area and trust me I have never been so aware of it in my life - it drives me MAD!

LaydeeC It's because it's pretty obvious that this is a light-hearted thread, and that people have been posting tongue-in-cheek.

You have come on here and told a poster to "fuck right off".

Isn't everyone mc these days? Not sure who considers themselves uc or wc now. I think my dad who was a plumber is probably mc now since he earnt more than us and we are both graduates in professional jobs!!

oh and he had a grammer school education! I was a lowly comp girl, but my name is Josephine and my mum is Finnish (pretty classless society) so what assumptions can you make?

Move to Wales. Around here boys are all called Tomos, Steffan, Rhys, Sion, Owen or Osian. Girls are all called Cerys, Megan, Tirion, Sian, Ffion or Seren. You don't get a lot of variation between the children of university lecturers and the children of binmen TBH. Perhaps we're classless

Is Bronwyn not popular in Wales?

I have never met a Bronwyn. I've lived here all my life. Branwen is the Welsh name (from the mabinogion).

It's funny, I went on some name websites when I was pg and looked at Welsh names- Lots of them were not Welsh names at all, just Welsh words (including ones which meant hate and torture). Was very

My sister is called Bronwen. I don't know any others.

GORGEOUSX - Do you really think this is a light hearted thread? Really?

I think people have taken their opportunity to be rude and snobby about peoples choice of name for their children.

Why can't Esme be an MP? I'm sick of reading this utter nonsense on this sight. Can our children not be anything they want to be? Why would a name stop you from being bright and intelligent and having the world at your feet? Oh, because you're named Ruby-lou, you can just work in Asda? Can you imagine if our teachers had this mindset? Its complete nonsense and discriminatory.

CharlieBoo You've just answered your own question "it's complete nonsense".

I haven't said anyone can't be anything.

No you haven't, but LaydeeC was quite rightfully miffed after a post about her daughters name...and you tell her its lighthearted. Its not.

charlie some teachers do have that mindest though and you are naive if you think they don't.

It is not right or fair but people are discriminated against by virtue of their names all teh time.

If you want you child to get ahead in life, calling them Ruby-lou probably doesn't help.

Freakonomics has some interesting info on the subject.

I know I should stay out of this. The way I read it was that, firstly, GeorgeousX didn't start the thread and, secondly, I think she meant the poster couldn't be accused of being MC because she jumped in with totally uncalled for language on a silly but not vicious thread. But she was worng. Swearing happens in all classes.

How can you say people are discriminated against by their name all the time? Like who? I have honestly not come across it in my professional career (only on a surname) and here we're talking about first names.

Just looking at a few MPs names, there's a Gavin, Karen, Angie, Kevin, and Rosie...oh and Charlie too. We ASSUME these professions are rife with Elizabeth's, Edwards, Williams, etc, but they're not.

Christina You're right - and I was being tongue-in-cheek.

Sorry - should have said, I've changed my name from WC to UC.

I've lived in Wales for almost thirty years and have come across very few children with traditional Welsh names - I live near Cardiff.
The names on your list are rife here, as are Eve, Amelia, Ruby, Poppy, Isobel, Imogen, Olivia, Maddie, Sofia, Sienna, Jasmine, Anabelle, Lily and Lexie. None of these names are exclusive to a particular class model.
I also find this utterly ridiculous, names come in and out of fashion, once one parent /celebrity chooses an unusual/rare name other's catch on and so the popularity rises. For example four years ago my friend named her baby daughter Esme, she did so as is was not at all popular at the time, now Esme's are just about everywhere!
Each to their own I say!

charlie You only need to read the names threads on MN to realise people are discriminated against because of their name!

I find the fact that you are arguing agaist that point astonishing. It is a fairly widely accepted phenomena. But like I said check out Freakonomics or any of the other myriad research in the subject.

The only place I see discrimination about names is on this website.

Charlie - you must live amongst nice people, no open sniggering at names or raised eyebrows. It might not be discrimination, just a feeling that it's not the done thing.

I think a lot of mumsnetters are very discriminatory and very quick to 'label' a name as chav, poncy, gay, dogs, cats or whatever.

I've worked for international companies, have lived abroad and find that most people in real life (especially non-Brits!) are much more open minded and relaxed about someone's name.

im of the opinion that if you come on hee asking for my opinion on a baby name thread, they by jeeves i will tell you.

But custardo, what we are questioning is whether that 'opinion' is shared by people in real life too.

I never normally comment on these posts but I've got to speak up in defence of people like Laydee, Mamma and CharlieBoo. The nonsense that is spouted on threads like this makes my blood boil and frankly makes most of you sound like a bunch of class obsessed, self absorbed, bigots. No, it is not light hearted to say that because someone's daughter is called Esme she'll never be a CEO or amount to much in life, nor is it 'just good fun' to mock names because of the social background you believe it conjures up. Nancy, It's interesting that you choose to bring Freakonomics into this as they argue totally against the point you are trying to make. They conclude that name is no influence on a person's success and is purely a potential indicator of a person's social, economic and educational status. They point out that racism may play a part sadly in the way a name is perceived but let's not get into that lest any of you sound even more offensive than you do already. If education, economic status and opportunity are constant then an Ellie-Mae will do just as well as an Emma and if you think otherwise then the joke really is on you. I have no doubt if half of you had been on here 30 years ago you'd have told Tony he'd never amount to anything if he didn't call himself Anthony Blair and Cherie that if she ever wanted to fulfil her Barrister Dreams she'd better change her name back to Theresa.

FWIW I don't think this is the thread the OP intended it to be. I think she was making a point about name popularity more than class. The thread that it has become though reads like a playground at a bitchy girls' school full of mean, offensive bullies. Mumsnet can be an amazing place full of kind, supportive and generous members, sadly though it just doesn't always feel like that.

Great post Cheese.

The fact is, people probably will make snap judgments on hearing a name, the same way they will make (probably subconscious) judgements about a whole host of things - it's what humans do; it's how we 'know' the world.

However is a very rare person indeed who sticks rigidly to their judgement or first impression, and who does not allow a wider knowledge of a person or situation, as well as common sense to ultimately filter through to provide a much clearer and more accurate overall picture.

Anyone who is even vaguely capable is not going to be held back in life because of their name. Condaleeza, anyone?