Could Aus be for us?

[SoCalLiving]

Hi! I'm looking for advice regarding a potential move in a few years time. We currently live in California but DP and I's visas are up in a few years and whilst we might be able to renew them we're not 100% certain it'll happen. I'd like some plans in place in case that doesn't happen. DP and I met in London and moved to the US several years ago and whilst I have a love hate relationship with Los Angeles, where we live, we do overall love our life in California. if we can't stay here I'd like to consider moving to other countries that offer similar lifestyles to what we have here.

Things we like about California:

• The weather - it's blue skies all year, warm summers, mild winters,
• The beach - we live 10 mins from the beach and go often, it's my happy place
• Higher pay than the UK (significantly!)
• Larger houses/apartments (LA is very $$$$ but the space we have even in an apartment is insane compared to where we lived in London. Our closet is bigger than the box room my partner once rented in London as a student)!!!
• That it's not England with its depressing weather, politics,
• Lots of nature/outdoors things to do e.g. hiking in the desert and the mountains

Realistically I'd never really considered Australia before now. It always seemed very out of the way and I always like being in a major city where things are happening. But some of DP's family members are now there and enjoying it, and I'm starting to see the appeal it might have. I'm wondering now whether we should try it for a few years if we leave California, and then reassess, but it seems like such a massive plunge to take!!

Things I worry about with Australia:

• It's out of the way geographically
• There's not much to do
• Distance from family - we already live 5000 miles away and an 11 hour flight, but we still manage to see family in Europe twice a year. Adding on another 5000 miles and I doubt we'll get to see them even once a year?! - What's holiday time like? Is it decent?
• Lad culture ingrained in society

I'm basically asking for people's opinions on my worries about moving there, but also whether we'd potentially like living there given what we love about living in California.

I think you’d really need to visit to see how you feel about it. We live Oz as a tourist destination, (we have family there) but there is no way we’d want to live there.

Do your ages when you want to move and professions meet migration criteria? Can you go for an extended period of time to have a look? I love Australia and have spent a lot of time there, but wouldn't want to live there. Things are very far apart, so while I liked the cities I went to, it would take you a day to drive between even the closest ones. I haven't been in a while, but never found lad culture an issue. Lots of racism instead. I would also be worried about the drought and bushfire situation, but you would presumably already have that in California.

Australia is great.

But when I was there for a year, it felt like it was really far away from everything. And behind too in terms of fashion, news etc. A slower life.

I am a UKer in Australia and have been year many years. I think Queensland might suit your lifestyle and climate preferences and think that is most similar to California, though significantly quieter and probably more relaxed.

It is very far away from the UK - at least 20 hours flying, although you can break it down with interesting stopovers in Asia.
Sometimes I regret moving so far away from my family but it’s not an overwhelming disappointment as it’s a good country overall with a nice standard of living. Another consideration is that the climate is beginning to become more extreme (as in California) with more fires and floods to contend with.

When you say there's not much to do, in what way do you mean? What sort of hobbies and interests do you all pursue currently?
I'm in Sydney and we've found plenty to get involved in- sports, hobbies, arts, music, theatre etc.
The different states are quite different culturally too- it's not all the standard Aussie bloke with his beer type of thing. Sydney suits us very well but would not be interested in living in Melbourne or Brisbane.
The weather also varies massively by state too, as does the housing stock.
Do you have in idea of which state/city you'd like to be in?

If you like SoCal weather, you need to be in Western Australia for the SD/LA type weather. Perhaps South Australia but it’s cooler.

Sydney/Brisbane/East coast is much more humid in summer. Melbourne is more fickle.

You don’t say what your qualifications are?

This is what I fear we'll have to do this year. It's just we don't get much vacation time here and I'd have liked to have spent it in the US if we don't have many more years here! But a holiday to Australia sounds like it would be nice regardless of whether we realize it is or is not the place for us to live!

This is one my big fears!! Right now being in California, outside of Entertainment, we feel so isolated from the world and current affairs etc (nobody really keeps up to the same standard we were used to like in the UK). Professionally, I've been told by Australians that things are definitely 5-10 years behind in the field over there.

I guess one of my questions to those in Australia right now, is, is this actually a problem? Or not something you really think about in your everyday life!

We are from the U.K. and have lived in Sydney for 16 years and are currently in the U.K. for a year. We also spent 18 months in Adelaide.
In answer to your questions:
Yes it’s a long way but we travel back to the U.K. twice a year. We are self employed though and have high incomes which assists with this as we always fly business class.

I don’t feel that Sydney feels out of the way at all, although I did feel that in Adelaide. It doesn’t feel backward in the slightest, in fact compared the U.K. lots is very advanced in terms of technology and especially healthcare and customer service. It’s a global world now and you don’t have to wait for things to come to Aus like you did 20 years ago.

There isn’t a lad culture any more than the U.K. - but my husband and his friends aren’t laddish and neither are my sons. They all have plenty of friends who do things like debating, music, theatre. There isn’t a drinking culture in the cities like in the U.K. as people are very health and body conscious, in fact people have said that the nightlife is boring because people aren’t drinking any more! We’re non drinkers so again, this doesn’t affect us.

Stuff to do - depends what you like I suppose. Lots of our weekends are filled with kids activities but we attend things like tennis events (Aus Open, United Cup) plus cricket matches, go to the theatre a couple of times a year, go to art events, other stuff in the city (Vivid) go out to dinner a few times a month, take our kayak out, go out in our boat, go for bush walks, play sports ourselves etc.

It’s a lovely place to live. You hear a lot on here about how it’s racist and backward but this tends to be from people who either haven’t been there or went once in the 90s and met a random racist bloke once in a pub.

I can only afford to go back to the UK every two years and I get family help with the cost of bringing the kids with me. I went through a divorce while here and with Hague Convention rules you are tied to the place where you were living unless your ex gives consent for you to move countries and that is until the children turn 18. So be aware of that.

In terms of stuff to do Australia lacks with museums and exhibitions. I am in Sydney, not a backwater regional town and I still think it pales compared to London on that front. My DC and I flew back last year and had an absolute ball at the British Museum, Churchill War Rooms, Buckingham Palace etc.

If you love the outdoors Australia is great, especially for the bush, water and the beach. Interstate road trips are fun. Except when it is really hot. On 40 + degree day, most people stay at home in the air conditioning and laugh at the determined English people who still venture out.
The public transport system is more undeveloped here - it is similar to the US in that most people drive everywhere.
It is an isolated country too. During Covid, Australia closed its borders for nearly 2 years. It saved a lot of lives compared to the shitshow elsewhere but for those of us who are expats, it was hard. But at the same time, if the world goes to war in the future, Australia is able to duck a bit more in a similar way.
So it’s all swings and roundabouts.
Check out the British Expats forum. It is a wealth of information.

I do agree that you feel a bit more cut off from world events in terms of things like wars. Honestly, I kind of like this! I seek out the news but you can certainly feel that conflicts etc are really nothing to do with you, which isn’t a terrible thing!

Yes, I agree, especially in the world today. And at least politically, Australia has remained around the centre, not lurching to the far right, like many countries have so there is some stability too. Having said that, look at what happened to NZ!

Really interested in the differences between the cities and states. Could you say a bit more about what they're like? I've visited Australia a couple of times but 10+ years ago now so a bit out of touch.
I thought the cities felt small compared to UK cities but the sunshine and beach was very appealing and great food!

I mean, they are smaller than U.K. cities but I guess bigger than cities in some other countries. It’s odd really to compare Australia and the U.K., they aren’t really similar at all, apart from language and some history. But different climates, populations, diversity, culture and history. There’s often a lot of comparisons between Aus and the U.K. in a way we never seem to compare say Dubai and the U.K. or Buenos Aires with London or Hungary with the U.K. or Australia.
i would try to look at Australia on its own merits rather than comparing it to the U.K. when they are really quite different - Aus is not just a hot England.

However - states and cities. Personally I like Sydney but Melbourne is great too - lots going on, good shopping, great restaurants. Plus interesting scenery. Brisbane I don’t know well but Queensland is too hot and humid for me, brilliant for a holiday but I like the cooler months in Sydney.

We lived in Adelaide for a while whcih is basically a large town, but for a town there is a LOT going on plus the restaurants are brilliant. It punches well above its weight in my opinion. Plus the country around it is stunning, full of wineries, great beaches and it’s pretty affordable. Good climate too. For me, I felt a little cut off but I can imagine it’s a really great place to raise a family.

I don’t know Perth or Tasmania or Darwin. Canberra has hugely improved and continues to do so. Lots of museums and galleries, high standard of living, lots of restaurants. Too inland for me as I like the water but it’s a city with a lot going for it.

if you take out London, I actually think the Australian state capitals tend to be on par, if not larger than UK cities and in fact, Australia is a highly urbanised country, as the lack of infrastructure makes it less attractive to live in a regional area.

For example if you need medical specialists, you are better off in a major city. If you are in a regional area and you have a major accident and need intensive care, you could be flown a few hundred kilometres away to a hospital with the facilities to treat you. So people tend to cluster close to facilities and close to the coast, as it’s cooler.

@morechange I'll give it ago but this is very much simplified and generalised. It's also worth taking on board that things have changed quite a bit in ten years. I've been coming to Aus since the early 90s before moving permanently and I can definitely see changes, even since I've been here- gender pay gap, maternity leave, flexible working, education etc

So as a general/light hearted summary:
Sydney - driven by business, real estate and tourism. Very multicultural, lots of large global firms and large hospitals so plenty of global movement in and out around that. Schools reflect this too. Beaches are beautiful if you're lucky enough to be near them and within easy travel distance (Bondi is not the be-all and end-all). Lots of arts based culture but more curated than organic.

Melbourne- more organically cultural, a bit more hippy but mature enough to have a serious business vibe.

QLD- bit more laid back, more chilled out, very social. Often and gets smashed by both storms and bushfires.

Adelaide- summed up by a friend there "living like kings in a beautiful kingdom but there just ain't much to do" (she is SA born and bred, well educated and travelled with 2DC).

As for the rest, I haven't spent enough time in them to comment.

It's like anywhere where the industry and geography shape the people and activities etc. And even though Sydney is very much a city, it still has loads of national parks and trails in and around it.

I agree @HenndigoOZ
Also, speaking for Sydney, there is a lot of beach and green space easily accessible from the city itself. We live about 40 mins from the city centre and we have miles and miles of bush land on our doorstep. Beaxhes are easily reachable from the city so there’s less demarcation between city and country. I know this is true for Adelaide too.

The countryside in Aus is totally different to the countryside in the U.K. It can be a very hard life, often remote with a population who know how to handle truly rural living. My aunt lived inland from Townsville and they were virtually self sufficient in food, how to plumb, wire, fix cars and other machinery etc. They had to be - they would be cut off yearly due to floods. It was an amazing community though, they all pitched in when my uncle got cancer, helped out on the farm etc. Very different to my parents who live in “rural” Sussex and have a Waitrose a 30 minute drive away!

Having said that, there are some really lovely rural areas that aren’t “tough”: the Blue Mountains, Hunter region, coastal NSW, around Berry, loads of parts of Tassie and Victoria, places like Stirling and Hahndorf in SA and many more.

What do you do as jobs? It isn’t quite as easy as fancying going and just going, you need to be on the approved job list or have other skills, or apply under the points system.
When we applied 17 years ago it was easier to get a 457 visa which was the sponsored job one - they handed them out very easily but I understand it’s much harder these days.

Not sure what you mean by “10 years behind professionally”? I guess it might depend on the industry - I worked as a lawyer and it was certainly comparable with London. The only thing that was different was that at the time (this was 2007-2010) the U.K. had embraced the telephone conference whereas in Sydney I was in court every week multiple times. Things may have changed since then though!My DH worked in banking and said that it was comparable to the U.K. but the salaries were higher in Sydney and he received much high bonuses etc. Again, this was 2007-2019 so things may have changed post covid.

Plenty of sunshine and beaches in the Mediterranean region, I would even go as far as saying you get far more sunshine in Italy, South of France, Spain and Greece.
We had three insanely wet years with La Niña and even this year, Christmas New Year was pretty wet and still is. Very cloudy again today, and it has been far too windy lately to be pleasant to be on the beach.

The downside for me is the distance. Not only for the price of flights but also the amount of time it takes you to go anywhere. Unless your final destination is a major city with an intercontinental airport, you might have to take 3 flights.
Since COVID, every time I have been back to Europe, shit happened, be it losing luggage, leg cancelled, flight diverted, which all take time to fix.

You can't really move on impulse. There is a nice exhibition at Palazzo Ducale in Venice? pop in a plane from anywhere in Europe, and go and spend the weekend in Venice.

I am not sure I share the view of those saying there is great access to culture. There is very little if one wants to do something even weekend, especially museums wise. The visiting exhibitions are often extremely tiny and compacted in a very small space which steals some of their value.

Music, yes, we get artists but no way as much as Europe or USA. The opera calendar has been on repeat, and theatre wise, the Sydney Theatre Company is great, the Biennale is cool as well.

Most people however are not into arts in any way or form. They go to work during the week, take the kids to soccer or nippers in the weekend, then maybe have a BBQ and a beer. I guess this is what you mean with lad culture?

Plenty of bush walking if this is something you are into. There are many National parks.
Skiing is crap compared to the Alps and Dolomites. Most people go to New Zealand or Japan.

The beaches are pretty. I live on the Northern Beaches and can walk to the beach. Houses come in every size, from huge mansions to small townhouses. Pretty expensive at every level.

The knowledge about general culture, geography, international affairs is shockingly low. Even recent history. Geography at school is a lot focused on agriculture, soil, water more than studying the world countries, capitals, rivers and mountains.

Health is another surprising one. Following my husband through his postings we have used several health systems and the Australian one is not great, or it is great if you are either very healthy or very sick. Private health insurance here doesn't cover specialist visits or exam such as MRI, Ultra sound and so on. It covers hospital stays, and might include partial private surgery (the fund will reimburse what Medicare would have paid) , so specialist visits are quite expensive. Here you do not see an Ob/GYN for yearly checks, or other specialties for preventative screenings and medicine. You pay for PCP, even if you can still find some free doctors,(called bulk billing) z but most are dreadful, so I'd rather pay the 50$ gap and see a regular.
Private funds will cover for dental or glasses and partially other things such as physio, but no way worth what you would get for the same amount of private even in UK.
If you have/want kids, no paediatrician, unless they are very sick or have a disorder.

Elective surgeries have sky high waiting lists even for very essential ones, unless you go private with several thousands out of pocket expenses.

I come from Monaco, where there is plenty of sun and beaches. For nature, I have to step into France or Italy, but salaries are quite high.

Australia is pretty, but also pretty boring if you are not nature crazy. Very quiet and laid back life which suits many.

And bloody hell, do people go to bed early here!!!!

Melbourne is a city of 5 million people with a strong cultural, foodie, sport, music and theatre vibe. And a cool rainy winter. Sydney is probably a bit more like LA, lots of beach culture, beautiful people etc. Lots to do there but often stereotyped as being superficial and appearance obsessed.
Housing is really expensive in both cities. Australia is at best about 22 hours flight from UK. Most Australian employees get 4 weeks annual leave a year and additional public holidays.

LHR-AU is 17 hours.

@SoCalLiving Going by your name, you say you like the SocCal climate. Most of the posters on here are talking about Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane.

That is NOT SoCal climate. Perth IS. We have blue skies all year. Yes, we have winter for about six weeks but even if you want to go to an event, it is more likely to be dry. We have beaches. And more beaches. And more beaches.

We are closer to Europe with a number of non stop destinations, closer to Asia, we have art and culture, we have nature and adventure. If you want it, it is here.

To give another view of the healthcare system, if you have health insurance, I've found you get help fairly quickly. Even in the public system next day if it's urgent enough. I saw a surgeon with a relative on Wednesday and they said they could do it on Monday. Not minor surgery either. The out of pocket was $500 for the surgeon and $200 for the anesthetist. You may have several months for a specialist though, depending on urgency. It's quite different in different locations, across different specialties and if you have insurance or are relying on the public system.

I agree the laddish culture is something I don't like, but there are still plenty of decent men out there who are not laddish.

There's lots to do. For the weather you are after is more likely in the northern parts of the country or Western Australia.

Distance from family is an issue but that's just something you accept if you choose to be here.

It's not that easy to get into Australia if you are over a certain age (45 I think) and aren't on the skills list. I'd check if you meet that criteria for a visa before thinking about it any further.

Hi there - in terms of being behind professionally, I think this is very dependent on your field of work.

eg my DH is a specialist type of engineer who does most of his work in the UK but we live in Sydney. His field is very niche.

I work in finance and just returned from a stint in our London office and honestly it felt the same as the Sydney office ( same procedures/systems).

I am not doubting your anecdotal stories but it may depend on profession?

As to whether you would like it here - the biggest downside is that it is far away from pretty much everywhere. So I can imagine that is isolating. Standard vacation leave is 4 weeks per year - but some places offer more. You can also “ save it” from year to year for longer holidays.

Also agree that Perth may interest you compared to California? Come and visit first!

@Cormoran it’s interesting - I don’t find Sydney boring at all, in fact one of the things I’ve found frustrating about our year in the U.K. is that at the weekend everything is so busy that the idea of jumping on an expensive train to London, it probably being delayed, going to an expensive, crowded event in the city, or sitting on the M25 is just not as appealing as doing the same things on holiday.

In Sydney it’s so easy to head into the city and even bigger events aren’t insanely busy.

However - I am a 45 year old mum and to be fair, my life anywhere isn’t as exciting as it was when I was a child free 20 something! I might have found it boring back then, but now with a family I like the outdoorsy life, like the space, the friendly people etc. Our weekends are normally sport for the kids on Saturday, probably out for dinner in the evening, Sunday might be take out a boat or kayak, or go into the city to a gallery and for lunch or meet friends for a lunch somewhere by the water. If you’re the kind of person who wants to go to all the latest events and arts events it probably is a bit slower for you, but for work/life balance and general livability, it’s fab.