HSC compared to A levels

[DcatAnnie]

Hello,

I’ve just read a thread discussing English A Level and GCSE’s. The UK GCSE taken in Year 11 and A level in year 13 as opposed to HSC taken in year 12.

Since English is the only mandatory subject for HSC, I wonder if this is the equivalent to asking all UK students to study it for A Level. Plus HSC seems to be 5 subjects (unless taking an extension) English is not Dc’s favourite subject yet it seems it will account for 20% of his HSC result.

I just wonder if anyone can comment on if the HSC really is the equivalent level to A level?

It would help if you said where you are. I'm assuming by being on this board it isn't the USA but if you are in Australia doesn't it depend on the state you are in?

Sorry, I’m in NSW. I’ve only ever lived in NSW so I didn’t actually realise that other states had something different!

Is there also a difference in the academic levels between the states or just the name of the certificate?

That's what the ATAR does -- gives a comparison level across the states at least for the university system.

Y12 exams in Aus are the closest thing we'd have to A levels. There's no equivalent to GCSEs as there's no national exam at the end of Year 10.

The school years (1-12/13) are a bit out of sync but the year but kids still finish at 18.

I've just had a look at a uni website, it looks like Australian universities accept A Levels and IB.

As for English being equivalent to A Level English, that depends.

I took O Levels (precursor to GCSEs) in 1982/3. At that time A Level English was just English Literature. An English language A Level was being developed at the time.

UK universities usually want maths and English language GCSE passes and a grade C or 4 is seen as equivalent to IELETS grade 6.

So I'm not sure I have helped at all, maybe just made it as clear as mud.

My opinion having completed the HSC many moons ago and helping my daughters through A levels is they are similar.

The HSC is much broader. Perhaps similar to the International Baccalaureate. The subjects are perhaps not as in-depth as an A level unless you study at 3 or 4 unit as in Maths.

At A level most students only sit 3 A levels in the final year against 5-6 subjects at HSC.

I don’t know about equivalents as we aren’t at that stage yet but I do know that year 12 in Aus is the same as year 13 in the U.K.
They start age 4 in reception in the U.K. which is why they have the “extra” year but basically year 8 in Aus is the same as year 9 in the U.K. etc. I know this as we just moved to the U.K. and my son went from year 6 in Aus to year 8 in the U.K. but he would still have the same number of school years left.

@Ozgirl75 do you think that going from year 6 Oz to year 8 UK that there is a big gap between these two years? or is year 7 Oz the equivalent of year 8 UK? Did the UK school put him in year 8 just because of his age or did they look at what level he was at?

I understand that the UK bigger emphasis on spelling and grammar. I know when I have looked at a year 6 SATS books that there are lots of questions that my DC in year 5 AU has not been taught (but that could just be his school).

So he is an august birthday which was why he was in year 8 but he has gone from year 6 to 8 pretty easily. He had missed some maths which was covered in year 7 (algebra basically) but he had a few extra lessons and caught up.
My younger son went from year 4 to half way through year 5 and he also found the transition fine. There’s a definite emphasis on spelling and grammar but there was at his old school too so he was fine with it.
The things they found hardest were languages because they hadn’t done French or Latin before. They also hadn’t really studied any British history but they caught that up fine too. Both did very well in their end of year exams! Better than I had expected actually.

My dc were about two years behind when we moved back to the UK. They were in grade three and grade six and went in to year seven and year four. My youngest had to have a tutor and she was well supported in her new school. Although she was miserable as she wasn't used to struggling.

The oldest fared better as she went straight into secondary school so everything was so different anyway.

I studied A levels in UK. My daughter studied the International Baccalaureate in Sydney as this was closest to A level and therefore more familiar. Also useful if you want to study at an overseas university.

I think at the higher achieving end A levels are still well ahead of the HSC. Comparison with the Scottish system is possibly more valid (plus, their default university degrees are also 4 years like Australian 4 years for an honours degree).

4 unit maths is somewhere between A level maths and further maths I'd estimate. Sciences are another matter entirely (though I'm not up to date with the syllabuses in NSW I would certainly not hold my breath). My children covered some useful material for GCSE that I'd not done in HSC chemistry 30+ years ago. Are there still no syllabus requirements for science up to year 10? That creates significant limitations for the HSC courses (I have an education qualification for science though never formally used it).

IB as a reference point is useful. Individual A level subjects are mainly described as going further than their IB equivalents, so the advantage of IB is breadth. (unless you are mad as well as talented and do 5 A levels as my youngest just did). IB was just starting to come in in some Sydney schools while I was in university, and it sounded like it would have been more academically rigorous than the HSC was.

i guess I always assumed the hsc and a levels weren’t really truly equivalent - how could they be? Most people only do 3 a levels but way more subjects are covered in the hsc so naturally they can’t be as in depth.
I assumed that Australia figured it was better to leave school with a less specific but more rounded/broad set of exams (including maths and English for everyone) whereas the U.K. decided it was better to specialise earlier. When my son was in year 9 in the U.K. he found it odd that he was being asked to think about phasing out subjects next year already whereas in Australia that wouldn’t come for a while.

I think in the past people just didn’t move around as much, so countries just created the system that they figured worked best for their country and workforce, whereas now, so many people work in countries they haven’t done exams in, it’s more relevant.

I'm curious about the compulsory english specifically at hsc.

Is hsc english harder than gcse english?

@SausageCasseroles it’s straight to University after HSC so I’m presuming it’s close to A level standard. Maybe AS level? Since it’s compulsory it makes me curious too. There are 13 school years in Australia and you need 10 points at HSC which is usually 5 subjects I think, some students do 6 so again this would suggest that the level is somewhere between GCSE and A level. I guess it would take a English high school teacher to look at the marking scheme and compare them to really know.

Yes I realise they're older but I wondered whether the level was actually any harder as it is the compulsory level standard.

I'd be really intrigued to know!

I think there are different levels of English - plus you can take extension English as well so I presume there’s a basic level, which would equate (ish) to GCSE and then the more advanced is the extension. It’s the same for maths and I believe possibly some other subjects too.

That sounds a good system to have the different levels. Presumably weighted differently so you can perform better in other subjects for uni entrance?

I think the UK A level system is too intense and doesn't suit a wide range of people, just uni entrance really and hsc seems a lot more achievable.

A levels don't have levels of access either. I do really like that idea.

I’m not sure exactly how it works as my oldest child is in year 8, but the HSC is pretty varied. I know at our school there are myriad technical subjects you can take if you’re less academic, or you can focus more on the academic and presumably different universities look at your various scores.