Can I ask all the knitters and crocheters (is that a word?) A couple of questions please?

[AdmiralCLingus]

So. We have a passion and we have a dream. An aladdins cave of wonderful yarns and accessories and a space to craft and chat.

But we need a business plan and part of that plan needs to involve knowing what people buy and how much they buy it for.

So, when you shop for yarn etc, where do you buy it?

How much is your average spend?

What brands do you buy most?

(I know I need to do some serious market research but I'm guessing this is a good place to start!)

Tia for any answers!

Well you may not like this answer but I am a pretty hardcare crafter and buy 99.9% of my supplies online through a couple of different yarn outlets and sometimes Ebay or Amazon. From online shops I will usually spend about ??25 each time as that gets free postage generally.

I shop online partly because it is easy and quick and I work full time so no time for visiting actual shops. The second reason is the huge range of yarns to chose from which no store can hope to copy.

Brands I buy most often are Stylecraft, Rowan, Debbie Bliss and Sublime.

Unfortunately actual yarn shops often seem a bit awkward to browse around with a feeling of being watched all the time and a strong sense of don't fiddle with the goods.

Yep - I think you will find the market is more or less in three segments:

• high end, boutiquey places like Loop (the Mecca of posh knitting), maybe quirky and full of hand-dyed stuff (Ginger Twist in Edinburgh)
• Hobbycraft - supermarket style, reasonable range of low- to mid-price although missing some of the real value brands like Stylecraft
• old world acrylic shops, really getting by on a loyal but non-internet-savvy local client base.

Unless you set up in a big city I wouldn't try and go down the niche, high-end route as people will have to travel to get to you. To be a successful new entrant on the local scene I think you need more than appeal to the blue rinse brigade, esp these days when even my friend's 90 year old grandma has an iPad (my own 91 year old grandma does not know what an iPad is). Running classes and having a knit night helps, being able to order stuff in quickly helps, and have a good mix of prices is essential. A cafe is an asset.

And even then I think it's very challenging - I also buy nearly all my yarn online. Either because I want brands that aren't in stock in my local yarn shop or because the prices are better.

I buy a number of Yorkshire brands - Titus/Dovestone, West Yorkshire Spinners, Cygnet. Jamieson & Smith, Regia, Fyberspates, some madelinetosh, Manos del Uruguay, and Stylecraft for Woolly Hugs projects.

Honestly I would be looking at the failure rates for craft shops, this is a very hard market to do well in. Maybe talk to some of the more successful shops in towns other than the one you want to open in - I'm sure they will give you advice if you're not a direct competitor.

Wishing you lots of luck.

I have two yarn shops within walking/bus range. One is new and has a mix of posh yarn and cheap acrylic (Robin, not stylecraft). The other one is what tribpot calls an olde worlde acrylic shop and she has the full range of Stylecraft and other things that I want. She also has the full range of Jean Greenhowe books.
The first one does meeetings and classses, the second one does not. Neither really have enough space to accommodate a lot of people. I visit both, the second one for Stylecraft more.
Otherwise I buy on line as it is very specialised: J&S and Frangipani. The advantage of buying locally is that there is no postage to pay, especially for small quantities and that you can feel the wool and gauge the colour adequately. I think the new one has been going for over a year and has gone from strength to strength.

I tend to buy at yarn shows from independent dyers. I hate acrylic yarns. I sometimes buy online from wool warehouse. I like Debbie Bliss too.
I often pay ??12-18 per skein of hand dyed yarns.
I love quirky accessories, lovely needles and hooks and a lovely space to sit/do classes. I love the sheep shop in Cambridge and the creative sanctuary in Hertford.

Miaow, Deramores is on its arse, isn't it? Their Facebook page makes for some interesting reading at the moment, they are in the middle of another so-called 'warehouse move' and people are being charged days or weeks before anything ships. Very poor.

I mostly knit baby or child clothes, and accessories, so am happy to pay a bit for yarns that I may not be justify the expense of if I were to knit, say, an adult jumper.

Most of what I have bought (when I used to buy; I dye mostly my own now) was Debbie Bliss, Rowan, Sublime - wools and natural fibres only, not acrylic.

I get excited by yarn shops that have more interesting brands like Manos, and have splurged too much on Wollmeise online in the past, but I would only buy one skein at a time of these yarns for a small project: hat or something. I wonder if that can be the problem with posher yarn shops - knitters want them to exist, but the fancy yarns don't sell large enough quantities to create revenue. The more acrylic type shops seem to see the posh yarn shops come and go, outliving them all.

I knit, as well as design for magazines, and research and write about all things textile, especially knitting.

I tend to part with money rarely, is the bad news. If I want to do a design, my publisher will ask a nice (usually indie) mill/supplier to give us enough to knit a sample. You can imagine I have accumulated some leftovers! On top of this, am a spinner and natural dyer so if I want a yarn for my own use - I tend to spin it. I can buy pounds and pounds of wool for a fiver (or get given it) which leaves little incentive to buy commercially spun yarn.

When I spend my own money it is usually direct on the Jamieson & Smith website, or at a stall at a wool show. I have several friends who are successful traders, indie dyers and the like - if I had money to part with (I don't) it would be to any one of them.

I have used Purlescence online. and for the occasional bit of down and dirty, bung-it-in-the-washing-machine xmas knitting for my student sons, I will get some random bargain at Deramores.

I think this was a market where some folk were making a lot of money say five years ago. Traders tell me they do better at smaller shows at the moment but of course, you have to mortgage your firstborn, write an application as impressive as 'War and Peace' then if lucky, get shortlisted for several years to get a chance at a big show like Woolfest.

I managed to score a load of Wollmeise as payment for a series of magazine articles and a couple of designs, once, which I am still knitting even now.

What I might be saying here is - you have to have something unique and special and create a buzz around it - and maybe have been a presence at a number of trade shows, and have talked, honestly, with traders and those people who make money - to get an insight into what goes and what doesn't. I am not and never will be your target market, I suspect. If you started selling (good) handspinning supplies on the side - I might be.

The area we are looking at setting up in has no real direct competition but a lot of what a poster up thread calls the blue rinse brigade
My aunt attends a knit and natter group that often complain of the lack of shops locally that sell yarn of any description so I'm hopinf this will be an advantage to us!

The high street we are looking at is undergoing a massive regeneration project so hopefully this will work in out advantage too!

I massively appreciate all of your feedback and advice, thank you ladies! Lots of food for thought here

Blue rinse or no blue rinse, I'd guess more £s could be made by having a mail order arm of the business as well? Which possibly means you need different stock as the younger women with disposable income, seem to be the big spenders in this market now.

The several mile long queue into the first Yarndale show, proved it can be a lucrative market - but you have to hit it right and the people who buy generic acyrilic down the market, will still be able to do just that. Those in search of something a bit more interesting might not be your passers-by. I live near one of the biggest tourist traps in the UK, if not the world (York) and have seen a couple of lovely shops - a reasonably priced vintage shop and a shop with stunning fabrics and some wool - go to the wall, despite the amazing number of people in the city centre. Successful shops here and elsewhere in Yorkshire have offered a wider range than wool shops did traditionally, and often focussed on promoting local designers and local wool producers. Running a slew of workshops might attract folk in, too.

I crochet and my purchases fall into three distinct groups.
Blankets - large blankets Stylecraft SDK, baby blankets drops merino ( very close to debbie bliss any cashmerio, but half the price) always purchase on line and spend at least £25
Gifts (scarves, gloves, hats, socks) - custom hand dyed from a small group of artisans
Top ups- LYS when I don't quite enough stylecraft to finish a project

I do belong to a couple of yarn clubs and do wonder whether you could combine yarn club and Knit and natter so you all get the reveal together.

My Mum prefers my LYS as she says the yarn for the patterns is actually stocked there, her LYS has different brands of pattern to the yarn they stock and she finds this hugely irritating.

I'm perfectly internet savvy and shop online for lots of other things, but prefer to buy yarn in actual shops. I like to be able to see the colour properly and feel the texture. I am a slow knitter so I don't get through lots of projects and don't buy yarn in bulk. I'm happy to pay a little bit more rather than get something I won't be happy with. Also I really enjoy browsing in nice yarn shops. I'm fortunate in that both the places I've lived in since I took up knitting have had a really good yarn shop nearby. I'd only buy online if it was a yarn I'd used before (in the same colour). And even then, I'd probably rather go to the shop and have a nose around!

Tricky tricky one.

The market you have here to survey is internet savvy. It is also going to be high end not acrylic as a rule. The yarns we love are niche and expensive as a rule. the savings to be made on line are significant. I'm afraid we will come to your knit and natter, fondle and adore your yarns, buy a token set of stitch markers and source yarn elsewhere.

I'm in brum. I have seen , over 10yrs or so at least 3 high end yarn shops come and go. My mate worked in 2 of them - the better one at least had significant on line purchases but basically she mailed parcels whilst sitting in the shop most days. The one that looks like it's here to stay is a concession in the local notcutts. It's very expensive as a rule.

The market loophole I see in yarn is for the better commercial stuff but ( from my mate that worked in the shops) knit picks, drops etc are very unwilling to take on small shops to supply. The place in notcutts had some nice reasonably priced West Yorkshire spinners yarn though.

Have you taken this to ravelry? Worth asking there and revealing your location if you can. Even the really nice shop in Manchester went bust didn't it..

I buy mostly high end, on the grounds that knitting is my hobby and it takes a long time to make something beautiful, and I don't want to put in all that time and effort with poor quality yarn that I won't want to handle afterwards.

I used to buy online until a good local yarn shop opened, and after I'd been in a few times, got to know the owner and the regulars, I wanted to support them and buy there wherever possible. They have done a great job of building loyalty, by having knit clubs (providing tea and coffee), fun events and special offers, and by having a newsletter every week with pictures of what people have made with yarn bought at the shop. So I agree with what a previous poster said about creating a local buzz.