Need some advice about using other people's patterns

[Dragonhart]

I have been thinking of making a little extra cash by selling things I have made at craft fairs and to friends.

I have found some brilliant patterns on blogs and in magazines and books I have but I am not sure if it is ok to sell them if I have not designed them? I suppose I do not just mean copyright but also if it is bad form to sell something you have made from another person's pattern, especially if they have put it on their blog for free.

Thank you in advance for any advice!!

Yes, I would say it's definitely bad form.
How about contacting the designers via their blogs and asking them if they mind? Maybe they won't.

speaking as a craft blogger and also someone who had had a craft pattern book published, most patterns are for personal use only and not to be used commercially. ask the designer though by all means, some are quite happy for people to sell what they make or offer what they call cottage industry licenses.

Yes, do as woolly suggests and contact the blogger/designer. If it's from someone like me, who's making it up as they go along and doing it for fun, then I'm sure they wouldn't mind, but if they're trying to make a living out of it like daenery, then it'd only be fair to pay them something.

daenery do you put something on your blog to say you'd only like people to make things for themselves? What wording do you use? I'm currently just doing craft things for myself, but am thinking about selling them on etsy or folksy etc.

yes, it says 'my patterns are for personal use only and not to be used commercially or i will be forced to curse you with a chocolate allergy'

not had to curse anyone yet but there are some having a field day on etsy with the patterns from my book

That's not fair daenery - I'd curse the etsy people if I were you!

that would give me sleepless nights Daenery; I would be inventing ways of getting revenge..ie. the nicked designs magically turn from adorable cats etc into lumps of cat plop once the perpetrator has finshed sewing it! Bloody swines!

daenery can you not contact etsy & notify them on an infringement of copyright/design right???

OP - it's bad form.

I think that this is really difficult, I have a blog and am more than happy for people to use my patterns.

I also think that it is a really grey area. I can show you the workings out for some of my patterns but I bet you that someone else will say, "But I thought of that first." Frankly, most patterns are a variations on a theme... after all there are only a certain number of ways you can make a cover for an i-pad (my latest offering). At the end of the day I am just pleased that people keep sewing, knitting, crocheting etc. and like to make things.

I think if the OP had been asking if it was okay to sell items made from heavily adapted patterns that might not be so bad, but it seems to be suggesting that she's using other people's designs without any adaptation, which is quite a different matter if it's not just for personal use. Of course, most things are a variation on a theme, but if someone is 'copying' ideas without permission and then selling them on, I think that's a bit off. There's a reason why designers copyright their ideas. They are trying to make a living. They spend hours or days working something out, sourcing materials, photographing their finished items, trying to market and sell things and then someone comes along and says 'I'll just copy that and sell it a bit cheaper'

Sorry OP. I don't mean to be rude to you. Why don't you find some patterns you like and make them your own by experimenting with different stitches, materials, techniques, etc. It would be more satisfying and creative that way, as well.

I am not a lawyer, but from what I understand, in the UK at least whilst you hold the copyright to the pattern itself, you don't hold any rights over what is made over it, and you can't actually restrict what people do with what they make from your pattern, and I think that you're not even able to restrict copying the pattern - just your layout/wording of the instructions. I believe this is also the case in the US, however Australia has some wierdness involving 3d copies of 2d designs (that I can't honestly see are really enforceable), so if I produce a pattern and specify for personal use only, there's not actually any legal basis for me making that restriction, and I have no way to enforce it.

Morally it feels a little bit off to do it, however like LatteLady says, so many patterns are derivative of other patterns - I know that I almost never follow a pattern, yet I make things which do look similar to other things just because there's only so many ways to make a bootie/jumper/whatever, so you need to make a judgement call on how you feel about that.

Thank you all, that is a great help. TBH what everyone has said is how I thought it should be but I recently made a little birdie for my own easter tree/branch from Attic24's lovely blog here; attic24.typepad.com/weblog/birdie-decoration.html
then while I was researching what people were selling and for how much to see if it would be worth trying to sell them, I saw a number of people selling almost identical birds with no reference to Attic24's pattern. So it made me wonder how things run.

It is good to know where you are from the start so will begin to try to make some of my own designs. I have already 'designed' my own egg pattern as I could not find one that I could crochet to look anything other than a blob! But then it is still an egg shape so there is every chance that someone has done the same number of stitched round. Which is where I get confused really. Also if I make patchwork eggs and then balls as christmas decorations, there are not many ways that the pattern can be designed so I am not sure if I would be getting into trouble there? Have done some research online and everyone seems to say different things.

It must be very hard for pattern designers as I imagine to take any action against people who use your patterns is very expensive.

Sorry, just to make it clear, I was not suggesting selling any of Attic24's birdies, I ment I was trying to see if it was worth trying to sell things I had made or if the time/materials would mean it was not worth it!

I would imagine that nobody can claim a very basic design as their own unless you use the very same fabric or yarn, in the very same colour, with exactly the same dimensions etc. However the bird attic24 has done is fairly specific, and I would imagine something like that would come under the more 'unique' aspects of design.

etsy don't want to know about stuff like this. their stock response is sort it out amongst yourselves. in reality, as a designer you can claim copyright etc over your designs, but policing it and actually enforcing it, is costly.

i've written a couple of blog posts about incidents of copying. this one about a peacock pattern and then this about a monsoon keyring which sailed a bit close to the wind.

another thing which happens a lot is people taking free patterns offered on blogs, printing them out, and then offering the pattern for sale. it is amazing what some think is ok to do.

If you look on Etsy there seem to be a fair few patterns for sale that specifically say you can sell items made from the pattern as long as you don't actually distribute the pattern itself.

Most patterns are stolen/inspired from other patterns anyway but rather than start a fight there are 5 "types" of permission

Open/public domain - this is stuff anyone can use
Personal use - this is stuff only the purchaser can use
Business use- this is stuff the purchaser can use and sell the stuff made
Resell rights - this is stuff you can't use but can sell

Private label rights - this is stuff you can use, sell and keep all the profit from money you make from it.

Most stuff not being openly sold is the first two and you don't need permission but it's good practice to give credit to the creator. If you've bought it then it's usually better to contact as the author may not have permission himself to resell it.

Thanks for all the advice, it really has helped me. Might be a silly question but can I just check that things like stitch patterns for crochet would not be copyrighted, eg granny squares and ripple stiches

No, stitch patterns are fine. They've been around for centuries!