TMFR options

[BleakTimes22]

Hello. My husband and I received recent news of an abnormality picked up on the 20 week scan, and confirmed at the Fetal Medicine Unit. Based on the consultants comments at the time pointing to dire probabilities and possible options to consider - including termination - my husband and I researched and debated all weekend. However, on confirming our desire to terminate the pregnancy for not wanting our child to suffer, the hospital have stated that the legalities need to be considered, and said that because they cannot confirm a severe disability is almost certain, they can only rule in favour of a "social termination" rather than "medical termination". What this means is that the hospital will pass us on to a private organisation to continue with the termination - which in itself delays the process and pushes us closer to the 24 week deadline. My problem here is that I am deemed a high risk pregnancy and so would be more comfortable in a hospital environment prepared to deal with any eventuality. Also, I want to deliver and hold our baby rather than go down the surgical or other routes. I have heard nothing but terrible things about Marie Stopes and BPAS who treat TFMR mothers as though they are on a conveyor belt or using this as means of contraception. I am so stressed. Can anyone confirm that they were able to TFMR in a hospital despite perhaps not being classed under Classification E, i.e. an anomaly that will be fatal to the baby or cause severe disability?

*became. Sorry for all the typos. I am so frazzled.

I cannot tell you all the last time I slept well. Despite being pregnant I have lost so much weight. Any other suggestions or course of action, please do let me know. I am desperate.

I also just wanted it to be known that these Mumsnet forums have been the most comforting in the last few weeks of dealing with these pregnancy complications. I don't have many friends in real life and certainly none I can talk to about anything like this. I'm so grateful for you all.

Hi OP,
So sorry you are going through this❤🌸
We are here for you.

Thank you @lovenaps . So appreciated.

I just stumbled upon a finding from research done:

Prior to 24 weeks, ruling under Ground C of the Abortion Act 1967 - which states that you can end a pregnancy if the risk to your physical or mental health is greater than if you continued with the pregnancy - allows for the hospital to manage the termination.

Post 24 weeks the ruling would have to be under Grounds E for the hospital to agree to the termination.

I think I have shown more than enough evidence of how devastating this is to my health. I am going to push to understand on what grounds we cannot proceed.

@BleakTimes22 ah right I have got you. Without a anmio technically they don't have a confirmed diagnosis (even though the scans show differently) so if there scanner is wrong (unlikely) you could sue them for you aborting a baby that was healthy and timescales mean they don't want to do amnio and wouldn't want to do termination on medical grounds anyway.

Ffs op I'm so bloody sorry. I had to go through all this ammio and all and I didn't know about timescales until my friend told me about it and to be careful. They say take as much time as you need to process but actually it can end up screwing you.

No advice but much sympathy 💐💐💐💐

Spot on @pitchforksandflamethrowers . Although from the Tommy's guidelines given on this matter, it appears prior to 24 weeks they could still agree if they rule purely on my mental and physical state. Why hasn't that been proposed? This is becoming a pro-life vs pro-choice driven struggle I feel.

I also think @pitchforksandflamethrowers there is a patronising vein to their suing argument: that I will regret it because I haven't thought about it long and hard enough as stands. Then they will be accountable for facilitating an emotional decision of this kind.

Is there any possibility that your baby may be born healthy. It’s seems a bit ambiguous that the hospital are not confirming this either way? I would want to make certain of a diagnosis before making any decision.

Probably tbh. They do not need to put you through this hell, it's just general arse covering and for that I'm so so sorry. Can you get referred up to at Mary's (they are in London but specialise in fetal abnormalities) and have there head screwed on better it seems than local hospitals than seem to put a womens mental well-being last.

Well @KentuckyDerbyandJoan , according to all official clinically observed papers, trials, observations and as used by the Royal College of Obstetrians and Gynaecologists, there is indeed a 2-5% chance that all will be absolutely okay. Without a "confirmed diagnosis" that the baby is likely to be in that 95-98% poor outcome set, they cannot rule that there is a significant risk to life. Would you take the chance of being in that 2-5%? Maybe so, but my life would crumble if all went the other way.

I will speak to BPAS and the hospital tomorrow about a referral to St Mary's unit in London, thank you @pitchforksandflamethrowers

Unfortunately it's turning very handsmaids tale... Uk following USA it would appear.

I can't imagine what your head space is like rn but just know, you aren't alone (even though I know you must feel terribly alone).

Before having my children... I had no idea the disregard they have for women in this position.

@BleakTimes22 apologises - that's the Manchester one - sorry sleep deprived

This is the place I went to www.kch.nhs.uk/service/a-z/harris-birthright

This is the London one. Uber fast too - your genetic midwife should be able to refer you to them. They should have referred you there already tbh.

Thank you so much @pitchforksandflamethrowers . I feel incredibly alone. My mental state is sliding trying to pull all together to achieve what will allow for closure and a calm state. My husband is a mess too. He just hides it well most of the time. I keep crying. I feel so helpless in all this. I will continue to fight this in hope the correct understanding of the law as discussed with ARC and BPAS is recognised

Harris Birthright. This has not been mentioned. Thank you so much @pitchforksandflamethrowers

I've read about Prof Nicolaides at Harris Birthright in many other forums. What do you think this clinic will do? Provide the documented evidence needed somehow or grant the medical termination @pitchforksandflamethrowers ?

(Never knew what clinic Prof Nicolaides worked at, so thank you)

@BleakTimes22 yes basically and I do believe that once you have that you can have termination up to any gestation and they would fully support you.

He's a odd character for sure but my gif does he know his stuff. Do you not have genetic midwife at your local hospital ? Genuinely shocked but sadly not shocked !

I'm sorry to have this in common. They are lovely there. I hope in some small way this has helped.

Thank you @pitchforksandflamethrowers , I will chase this up tomorrow

Yes I would take the chance. I wish you strength for whatever you decide.

This seems so odd that your experience has been so different than mine. How did you get on today? Been thinking of you.

@BleakTimes22 echoing pp been thinking of you. This is why when faced with suspected issues you have to push hospitals hard or they are just rubbish.

💐

Thank you @UnclePastuso and @pitchforksandflamethrowers for thinking of me. I am an absolute mess. I've been crying all day. I found out that not only is my case rare according to the hospital, but my hospital's policy around Grounds C is completely different from any other hospitals ARC have dealt with before, which they mentioned when they spoke to them directly. This is why my hospital have refused me a TFMR. The hospital, perhaps hearing that I am melting down this end, are trying to find another hospital who can accommodate me although they said not to get my hopes up. I just keep thinking of my baby coking out in bits if I am forced to have a surgical. I am distraught.