Help - wife suffering from PND

[Epsomdad]

We have a 3 week old daughter, a 5 year old and a 12 year old.

My wife suffered REALLY badly with PND after our 2nd daughter was born with initial anxiety becoming, basically, psychosis within an hour of taking Prozac! Background was she saw the doctor because she felt anxious, she prescribed Prozac and my wife, whilst physically there, became a zombie for the best part of a month. She only came out of it a few weeks after stopping the drugs - horrible horrible times.

This time around our daughter is breast feeding (fantastic as the other two didnt) and my wife felt fine until around day 10 when the panic attacks started again (always first thing in the morning). She is physically drained of all energy because her head is ticking away with hundreds of worries which in turn means she cant face getting on with normal life (school runs etc) and so it goes around and around.

Last time we found a solution by seeing a private psychiatrist at The Priory who took her off all meds and slowly she came back.

This time, as soon as the symptoms began to present, I made an appointment with the same doc and he prescribed her with Trimipramine as there is no way she can go down the other meds route like before.

She's taking 50mg a day at 7pm and its making her drowsy to try and help her sleep and myself and my mother in law just bring the baby to her to feed during the night and then whisk her away to settle.

It is REALLY hard right now - I have a very high pressured job and the run up to 31 January is my busiest time of year where I have to work 12 hour days or else I miss deadlines which puts my job at risk! Im surviving on hardly any sleep just to try and keep the balls in the air.

Wife is thinking giving up breast feeding might help as its obviously easier to feed out of the house that way and then I could do the occasional feed so she could at least function. Daughter is cluster feeding several hours a day right now (at night she's not too bad for this age e.g. 9pm, 1am, 4am and 7-30am would be typical)

Expressing is a no-no as there would be the time to express, then the time to feed and then the time to clean and she's not keen on that.

Has anyone had experience of taking Trimipramine - does it do any good and how long until an effect is felt? Is it safe for breastfeeding?

Also if she stops breastfeeding is that likely to make the PND worse?? Is it likely to settle daughter?

Finally there is one school of thought that suggests we might be helping a bit too much e.g. she doesnt need to do anything apart from feeding. If she had to do the morning school run it might help her get the day moving rather than moping and sinkin (which is understandable) - but how can I do that when she has me and her mum around.

Final bit of background - we sold our house, couldnt find another suitable property so, for now, were living with mother in law anyway (thank God!).

Help Help Help from someone who seldom asks for help but confesses to feeling a few emotional cracks starting to appear right now...........

pnd support info

and here

and here

as well as all the fab support and advice you will undoubtedly get on here.

I was so thankful for bf looking back as it forced me to have a relationship with ds, plus there was no guilt/anxiety about not doing it and the pleasure in all the benefits for both of us. Formula will mean there will still be all the prep, cleaning to do for months and months.

Expert info on drugs and bf here.

At 3 wks lots of mums will just be bf and not much else anyway - it gets so much quicker when they get older. It takes a bit of practice to feed out of the house but honestly it gets to be second nature. Going to a support group can really help (search here).

Has she been refered for specialist peri-natal counselling - ask gp. Health visitor may also be able to refer.

What a caring man you are to recognise your DW needs help and to ask for it. I have no experience of PND, but I do have 2 DC, the youngest of which is 6 weeks old. I didn't bf DS on medical advice (felt awful about this, I was sitting in my hospital bed crying my eyes out saying "but breastfeeding is so good for babies...."), and I stopped bf DD (the baby) after 2 weeks. I was wracked with guilt and a whole gammut of negative emotions on both occassions. If you wife is happy to bf then I'd encourage her to keep going, so keep that bond with your baby and so as not to release the potential feelings of guilt and anxiety that are likely to come with no bf. I struggled enough without PND.

Well tonight I've made an appointment with a counsellor for Wednesday - just pills alone isnt going to pull DW out of this.

This was today:

Last feed last night was around 8-30 (session of cluster feeds since around 5 which DW found really really tough)
DD woke at 00-50 and DW was fine, drowsy from the pills but otherwise fine. Feed finished by 2 - swaddled her and she went to sleep (as did I for first time)
DD awoke at 4 - again DW fine but this time DD would not settle until 5-30 by which time DW was getting panicky and anxious
DD awoke for feed at 8-30am

All in all a good night apart from the 4am feed but DW still felt it was a terrible night.

At around 8am DW awoke with a panic attack - ended up violently rocking and crying (our 2 daughters were about to go to school and I am trying so hard to shield them but it's impossible)

When DD woke though DW breastfed and was calm and fine. DW is desperate to keep the BF going and does not want to express or introduce any formula as this is her clinging onto control

Today we went to register DD, then to see middle daughter's nativity and in between times I persuaded DW to go to breast feeding support group, which she did alone with DD. Breastfeeding is apparently excellent with no problems at all - the problems are in DW mind and her anxiety and panic.

This afternoon I had to go to my office for a couple of hours - I have no choice or my business will collapse and fail - what else can I do?! In the meantime though DW (according to mother in law) was tearful that I had gone.

Cluster feeding began again around 6 and by 9-20ish when the last feed started DW was so desperate she literally wailed out loud almost begging to be sectioned.

It's a cry for help I know - I offered to do the feed with formula (we have some JUST IN CASE) but DW became more desperate that we mustn't and she did the feed, winded her and settled her back into her moses basket...

So 10-50 and here I am now waiting for the next feed and desperate that it wont come too soon but hearing DD making noises which I know will send DW back into despair if she wakes too soon.

I am just hoping that the fact that DW is not rejecting DD and is feeding, bathing, dressing, changing nappies etc is a good sign and it is truly just the anxiety and tiredness which is causing her depression.

Cognitive behavioural therapy on Wednesday at 11 and I'm hoping that perhaps talking things through on a nitty gritty level will help calm the anxiety and panics because I can feel DW slipping deeper and I desperately dont want that. The counsellor told me it sounds like DW is not believing that she will be able to cope and it's that faith in herself (having brought up two other daughters) that needs restoring in her mind.

........at least I wrote this down to clear my mind - it's bloody tough being a DH at times.

Good luck Epsomdad. You sound like a very strong, caring and capable DH and Dad. I do hope that you are your family are able to pull through this.

Cluster feeding is tough for anyone - you just feel all touched out. There is a growth spurt around 3 wks for a lot of babies btw.

I had huge anxiety too. What was the birth like? My therapist went through reality with me eg no medical pofessional was worried about our baby, we had a home, money, were accessing support - actually things were going ok. It did help to keep going over this in my mind and I did come to see it as true.

Would your dw like to come on and talk to us? Tell her she can pm me is she doesn't want to chat in public.

I can't give you a huge amount of help as I don't know that much about PND, but sending you all some kind thoughts - and maybe a few suggestions that might help:

Firstly please do go back to the doctors, counsellors etc as much as you need to, it sounds like things are pretty serious and she will need some professional help to get through this. Even if the previous meds did not help matters, there may be other things that would.

Secondly, you mentioned worrying and anxiety which rang a bell for me. It may be worth asking to have her thyroid levels checked, as I think overactive thyroid can cause this after pregnancy (think this may have happened to me, to a lesser extent, as I was very anxious after both DCs but never diagnosed). Is she also losing a lot of weight? Though it may be hard to tell after just 3 weeks...

Finally although I'm no expert, trying to get her to do more "work" to make her "pull herself out of it" (paraphrasing, I know you didn't mean it like that ) sounds like a very bad idea to me. However in SOME cases at least, I think some help to get out of the house a bit could help - it helped me hugely when I managed to go and meet friends, and also (gentle! after just 3 weeks) exercise and fresh air, like going out for little walks, was good. But it does depend on the person I think, and on how bad things are - maybe try some gentle encouragement and practical help to do this, but be prepared to back off if this makes her really anxious?

Hope you all get the help you need, and in the meantime be gentle with yourselves...

Hi, I really feel for you and your family. I experienced awful pnd after my DS was born 2.5 years ago. I was desperate to BF, but was heading to self destruction, ended up on meds and felt I couldn't 'risk' BF while on them. (I do know that plenty of people do BF on meds, i just personally couldn't). I stopped BF and things just got worse and worse, the guilt was terrible, and although I recovered after about 9 months, I don't think the scar from stopping will ever disappear. I have read that BF releases hormones which have a calming effect and that it can help lift mood. Obviously for your family the bigger picture is more important than just BF, but I can identify with your wife's determination. I think that allowing her to concentrate on the BF is the kindest thing at the moment. BF a newborn can be so demanding, and when the baby gets older it will get easier, maybe then it might be time to get out and do more. I really hope things improve soon.

Can you take the pressure off her in other ways e.g. by getting a mother's help to deal with the stressful times - doing washing, cleaning etc. Tea-times can be so pressured with the demands of several kids clamouring at once, and no sleep. A mother's help can also to be company to stop from "thinking too much" - as you can do after spending time on your own?

Can you get in-laws or friends to give her a couple of hours off for a swim, walk, run, relax etc. to physically get the stress out of her system? Or to call in to distract her?

Can you make time for her to do something skillful which is so absorbing that she can't think too much about the worries - like painting, golf, horse-riding - whatever she is into.

Can you make time for little things which she may not feel she has time to do with a new baby - like get a haircut, visit dentist, optician, buy some new, slightly too expensive clothes? These things seem so trivial and shallow, but can actually fundamentally affect your self-esteem and image when you feel you are giving everything to your children and family.

Can you book a holiday in a couple of months once your January deadline has passed which you can all look forward too - preferably one which is family friendly where you can all get a break (we went to Bedruthan in Cornwall recently which was expensive but worth it because all the kids were happy and entertained and we actually got some adult time with reliable babysitters. I think there are loads of other similar ones.).

I'm just coming out of a year of awful PND myself - these things have helped me.

You sound absolutely amazingly supportive, BTW. Really brilliant.

Are you ok?
Did you manage xmas rush jobwise?
How are the wife and kids?

Wishing you well. sounds extra tough.

Is there any help at all possible for you at work, could you employ someone on a short-term contract to take some of the burden?

I'd agree that starting to do more might be a good thing for your DW. The school run sounds a step too far tbh - my dh suffers from all sorts mentally and the playground is NOT a good place for him.

I relate very much to them suffering when you leave them alone - it means you have a constant knot in your stomach as well when you leave them, quite apart from the usual stresses of work! It's really tough.

Are there any friends you have been in touch with recently? It sounds like you desperately need some time just for you. Even a good phone call, but better yet a lunch/afternoon out (since evenings are so tough)? Maybe it sounds trivial, but just decompressing for a couple of hours can make it possible to do another week without wanting to scream.

This too shall pass. Please accept a platonic [hug], you are doing a great job.

Yes this month is extra tough. Speaking about me first of all I'm working 14-16 hours a day to try and catch up including weekends and I know I will get through but it's tough because to be honest I want to be home helping but cannot.

DW is still BF-ing exclusively - we have been on the verge of giving up so many times with the rollercoaster of moods (DD half the time DW the other half!) but still going.

Right now though DW has started dipping back down very fast. I think part of it is because I am not at home. We both knew January would be tough and as I am the boss I cannot escape or get help.

Mother in law is helping more than anyone could ask and that is amazing and DW is doing fantastically well but I know she wants me at home and I know she knows I cant but I also know she wants me to KNOW that she still wants me home (if that makes sense?!)

So yes I am aware that she needs me there but I'm in an impossible position for the next few weeks where I cant just abandon work as the long-term repercussions would just be massive.

We saw a cranial osteopath shortly before Christmas as we felt that DD had reflux (we no longer think that). He warned she would be unsettled for a week afterwards, and she was, but then improved.

We had another session last week and since Friday DD has gone from having been more settled (pre-session) to far more ratty again. I am convinced that it is because of the cranial osteopath and that she will settle in a few days but DW is back on the edge again. I can understand how she is feeling as I know that when you're feeling depressed you arent actually listening to common sense and just want to hear doom and gloom.

Hopefully DD will settle though and we can perhaps stop worrying there is something wrong with her.

Has anyone else got experience of Cranial Osteopaths - apparently it is meant to help settle the baby quicker but it's the ups and downs that DW cannot handle right now.

She just wants "a normal baby" which I think we have already got but on a bad day DW is feeling like running away again - and that's a horrible feeling for me when I cant be there and then, like right now, seek sollice in posting on here for some comfort!!

In the meantime I'm doing my best to support her as much as I can, I wish I could wave the magic wand but until February comes I'm going to just keep biting my tongue and keep an open ear.

All suffering wives need a punchbag but us DH do suffer as well!!!!

PS I know DH can get PND too but dont worry I havent got it

As for a holiday - I would love one but I know that DW would be anti it as the idea of being away from home with a ratty baby who just wants to feed all the time would drive her even more mad!

too bad polygamy is not allowed. you sound like a fine catch! ;)

humour aside, i know nothing about cranial osteopaths. have never been to an osteopath in my life to be honest.

But it sounds like you guys almost, almost, have a plan and that although it will take a bit more slug from you and mil, that you will pull through.

Hugs to you and yours.

Re: All suffering wives need a punchbag but us DH do suffer as well!!!!
I used to have one of those sand filled clowns to punch as a kid. wonder if this would help (either of you)?