To think the professional world is full of middle aged men of very average abilities who still seem to have gone far

We refer to these people as “organ donors”, assuming they are just around in case the real top dogs need spare parts.

I don’t get why people moaning about these men being in these jobs don’t go out and do them themselves?

I think if you really wanted these jobs you could get them?

But people (often women) don’t. It tells me they don’t actually want them.

Same for me btw. I have a decent job, and my superior is a mediocre man, but honestly I CBA to do the ‘fight way up thing’. I probably could, but I just don’t want to, I’ve other priorities and things that give me satisfaction. Those jobs look tedious and far too manufactured stress to me. The thought of being a politician for example, it’s not even a fleeting ‘oooh I’d love to do that’ it’s just a flat out, no fucking way

those people always ace the interview!

We really do need to get away from The Interview Performance being the main way that people are selected for roles, as it's really not the best way for this and other reasons.

This...it boils my piss.

Why does this still happen? So many industries propped up by women but men always happen to get the top jobs.

Yes met many of these in my industry

Have rarely met women in senior positions who match this description.

@hamstersarse I don't necessarily want the job but I enjoy doing my job more if I don't have to walk onto a project wondering which senior members of staff I'll have to use my toddler management skills on.

I’m only used to smaller company structure (although has been part of global one) but the people at the top are judged by winning new business, so if they are mediocre at doing that they wouldn’t last long.

Still there tends to be more men at the top, especially one department which is very skewed. Another seems to be more women. The owner / ceo etc tends to be male but not always

This happens in schools too. Those that know their subject well, can engage children, can actually TEACH, aren’t fast-tracked promoted. Those who come in spouting the latest acronyms or other bullshit, who drink in the right pub after hours and smooshed SLT are promoted to assistant heads after three years in the classroom.

I once questioned why an obvious charlatan (male) had been promoted to management position over one of the most amazing teachers I’ve ever met (female). I was told the female teacher was more valuable in the classroom as she was brilliant at her job. The less-able teacher was better in management out of the classroom as he wasn’t very good with the children. He then became her line manager from an office base, on a lot more money, telling her what to do and how to teach! (This isn’t a stealth boast; I wasn’t the female in question).

Yep. I shelved my imposter syndrome a long time ago when I realised most of the work place is bravado and having the belief they can do something rather than the experience and proven ability. As soon as you realise you deserve to be there and have a go as much as anyone else (usually men, in my sector) it is a very freeing feeling.

And I have to say unfortunately, many of the women in very senior positions in my workplace seem to really over compensate with aggression, I'm sure it's a byproduct of having to be 10x better than the men and the fight to get there, but some of them are really quite unpleasant with it.

Women are just as useless, they just make up a smaller proportion of senior roles so you don't notice it as much.

The average member of the workforce is by definition average, also there are more men than women in the workforce (because children), with more years of experience (because children) and statistically they are likely to be white. So yes your boss is probably an average middle aged white man who got there through time served spent learning how to navigate the world of work to their best advantage. It's a statistical inevitability not evidence of a sinister species wide campaign to disadvantage women.

100%
The secret to being successful is being confident and being able to waffle
My husband is ex forces and we went to a lunch time each year with the local RBL. They have a speaker at the end of the lunch and last year it was a very successful RAF bloke. He decided his talk was going to be about himself and how he ended up being so successful- basically because he's a confident white man who had a wife who would follow him where ever he needed to go. He's very rich- big house and young retirement.
I refused to go this year as I really don't want to hear about mediocre men any more! Once you realise it you see them literally everywhere

@NewUser123456789

Maybe that’s the thing, most people are just mediocre, male or female

And our expectations are just too high from all the ‘motivational leadership’ webinars that are forced down our throats.

men are just cut more slack as well, by other men and if more annoyingly by women

we recently interviewed fir a very senior role which included a presentation. The woman turned up did a thorough & well researched presentation focused specifically on our organisation

bloke turned up with a quite clearly generic “I’m applying for lots of jobs” presentation

discussion afterwards “well! She was massively over prepared, I much preferred his, you could see he’d really thought about it” “yes I agree! It was almost like she was telling us we needed to change” (hint- we clearly do)

fortunately it was a two stage process & the person chairing the second part of it was quite clear he was winging it so he didn’t get the job

when the chair rang him to say he hadn’t got it, he said that he had just bunged the presentation together that morning, didn’t really know anything about the organisation & was just using it as a practice anyway

I've seen it in teaching too! Two particular men come to my mind straight away one became an assistant head and was absolutely abysmal at his job

teaching? really? I worked in teaching for years and did several years supply and most of the mgmt and people with authority positions I came across were women and yes there were plenty of completely incompetent women in positions they were totally out of their depth in. It is the 1 profession that is mostly women though.

Yes, I’ve been saying this for years.

Even now, I look at my children’s school for instance, all the leadership positions (other than the head) are white incompetent males who talk a good talk but rely on their colleagues to get shit done. Once you notice, you cannot unsee

*well! She was massively over prepared, I much preferred his, you could see he’d really thought about it” “yes I agree! It was almost like she was telling us we needed to change” (hint- we clearly do)

fortunately it was a two stage process & the person chairing the second part of it was quite clear he was winging it so he didn’t get the job

when the chair rang him to say he hadn’t got it, he said that he had just bunged the presentation together that morning, didn’t really know anything about the organisation & was just using it as a practice anyway*

I don't think this was necessarily sexist though, they might have being right about him in this case. I worked in education and I saw 2 colleagues do a presentation on the engagement of nonperforming male students each. The woman was massively prepared and just showed data and research etc that she found online and just stuff we'd heard a million times before. She read from powerpoints etc.

The man presented but had much less research deep done and spoke about his experiences in the classroom and made it relatable giving strategies that worked for him etc. He was much better and the crowd interacted with him much better and actually listened.

Again this is not a gender thing, it was because what he said was real and the teachers could connect to whilst she just presented aload of Ofsted and education data that some educational psychologists and others who had never taught drew up. Just because a presentation is heavily prepared and researched doesn't mean you'll win your audience over because it can just be presenting some high end research etc.

Even now, I look at my children’s school for instance, all the leadership positions (other than the head) are white incompetent males who talk a good talk but rely on their colleagues to get shit done. Once you notice, you cannot unsee

I'm sorry but unless you are working in the school you can't judge or know this accurately. Parents generally have no idea what goes on behind the scenes in schools or who does what.

A prime example was a leader we brought in a couple of years ago. On paper looked incredible and he sold himself as an amazing professional who had led teams, won business etc etc

Sounds like he was pretty good at advertising if he blagged the job.

Whether he was good at the actual job is another thing but for these kinds of jobs you'd expect bullshitters to be able to smell the bullshit!

I'd say this is true. I'd say for a Black person to excel to such levels they have to be so remarkable that they almost seem superhuman.

I agree @Lampedsomeoiks but am increasingly convinced that this is due to nurture, not nature.

Girls are simply socialised completely differently from boys. It starts from birth, even to those born to progressive/equal families. The influence is everywhere, it is not so much 'subtle' as so 'engrained' that it can be hard to perceive - i.e. it's institutional.

There’s truth in this.
People see managers and leaders as being either inspired or ego-driven.

Both are true but the real truth is that managing/leading is often very hard work and very unrewarding and not as many people as you would expect either want it or will step up to it.

*People see managers and leaders as being either inspired or ego-driven.

Both are true but the real truth is that managing/leading is often very hard work and very unrewarding and not as many people as you would expect either want it or will step up to it*

yes agreed this and managers/leaders have to make decisions that affect everybody but yet they can never make everybody happy so they will get battered no matter what they do.

My OH has worked at a number of schools in finance departments. Anecdotal but there hasn't been one school that's not been run terribly with noone having the first idea about money, how to budget, manage what they have.

In my OH's experience it's not been a lack of money but how it's been spent. It could all be sorted quite easily but somehow senior management don't listen to financial experts as they know better.

But the bulk offenders are male. Arrogant fu#kwits.

@astronewt perfect response 👏

We do stuff around imposter syndrome and without fail the demographic of those participating is almost 100% female