Tate charged

@MissingMoominMamma

You have my empathy, both for the fact that you’re struggling to know how to understand and challenge your son’s views and the way you’ve been spoken to on here.

Ive searched for content and the challenge is that Tate and his fans says these things are taken out of context. He promotes himself and some people see him as someone to aspire to because of the alpha male / money thing rather than the views on women.

If we challenge too hard it drives our sons into a place of defending him even harder. I try and listen to what it is that he is saying with an open mind (as much as I despise it), try and validate how my son feels without agreeing with the content, and offer a view based on my understanding of the facts. My son (as with yours by the sounds of things) is respectful and kind but is struggling to understand his place in the world. He feels that he doesn’t understand who he should be and how he should act and Andrew Tate literally tells them that in a way which makes them feel worthwhile. It’s scary and of course it’s all dangerous bullshit but I get it and I think that throwing insults around is incredibly unhelpful.
(Reminds me of asking my brother to explain a joke to me when I was a child and him getting angry with me because I shouldn’t be saying it, when I asked why he just told me to ask someone and I said I am - you. He never did tell me and in hindsight I suspect it’s because he didn’t understand it himself).

he simply said his secondary school prioritised the girls all the time. He was quite insistent. I often wonder if he follows Tate.

Why on earth would you wonder that? Based on that one view? Massive leap to make regarding an otherwise thoughtful & impressive boy.

Do not post links to his content on MN. It is exactly how he and his supporters game the Google algorithm and spread the word.

If we challenge too hard it drives our sons into a place of defending him even harder

I could not agree more with this, my ds is 26 and it was the most frustrating thing ever, he was throwing monthly cash at hustlers university and literally thought AT knew it all and was going to help him find his 'thing'. Just that alone was infuriating without all the other stuff. The things he was 'learning' about making money was mostly common knowledge and freely googleable for free!

Hes in a different place now (literally moved out) and I dont think hes paying for it anymore, whatever it is now called but I try to avoid the subject of AT as it causes too much hostility in the house.

Im also clueless as i didn’t know all this about this bloke
ignore the other poster, you asked for helped not an attack.

As a 54 year old male I'm not Tate's target market. But when superficially looking into who he was I found a lot of things I actually agreed with.
Hear me out. Work hard, put yourself in a position to achieve what you want. Don't chase women who don't want you...
Then I found a lot of quotes and small clips of him saying something disturbing but I am not sure if this is being taken out of context or even fabricated.
The BBC interview shown recently was 8 minutes, there's a 38 minute version where the interviewer comes across really aggressive, rude and arrogant.
So please can someone tell me where I can find actual video of him being vile because I cannot find it.

If you have seen the full video on iplayer and see nothing wrong with his behaviour towards women AND young men, I really hope to god you do not have daughters....or sons for that matter. I seriously pity your wife if you think that behaviour is acceptable.

I'm with @CharlieRight . It's not that I think TT & AT are ok, but I do know they have an exaggerated reputation. There is distortion & hysteria in how their words have been reported. Some people love to be outraged. And no I don't want to search hard finding reasons to dislike them. Whatever they are, they are.

I hope justice plays out soon and any guilty parties are punished.

@MissingMoominMamma I sincerely apologise for going off at you last night. It was wrong and I wish I had responded with empathy or information, instead of anger. It was misdirected anger - I am very angry about AT and the damage he is doing to women, and young girls who are being abused by his fans at school and elsewhere, and very angry at the recent Department of Education advice to teachers to not talk about this with their students. I am frustrated that older adults are not really delving into this properly, or trying to protect women and girls from men like this. Some teachers are desperate for support and parents and the government are not stepping up, on the whole.

AT self-identifies as a misogynist (which is why the newspapers can openly call him that without fear of a defamation lawsuit) and he doesn't believe women are people. He doesn't hide this. He's said on video that we ("females" as he calls us) are "barely sentient" and "empty vessels waiting to be filled" and his fans no doubt have heard him say these things, and either just accept them or embrace them.

He boasts to his "hustler" followers that pimping out and sexually abusing women is a good way for a man to make money, and there's no way they cannot know that. He made a famous video showing how he would grab his gf by the throat and choke her for saying something he does not like. He is famous because of this stuff. So any sons who follow him are ok with this. I gather this is news to some parents but it won't be news to their kids.

Idk what the solution is. If he's convicted, he could still become a martyr for abusive men, and if released, well that's even worse. His hustler followers are emulating him and spreading this hatred of women in the real world, so it doesn't end with him. They are being duped, and it's awful, and a lot is made of this, but my sympathy is limited to his victims, just as it is regarding any other group of people who want to abuse and oppress another group to feel good about themselves.

I don't wring my hands over 20-something year old Nazis who say people of colour or gay people aren't really people and should be abused for money, and I'm not going to do that for grown up AT fans either, or play it down and say well they have a black/gay/female friend etc so it's not really that bad. These are adult men who should be ashamed of themselves, as they are definitely old enough to know better. They are extremely dangerous to women, either directly with violence and abuse, or indirectly through spreading hate against women which encourages such abuse.

Perhaps unknown to me there is a movement of men forming to combat his ideas, allies to women the way some white people have been allies in fighting racism, or some straight people have become allies in fighting homophobia. But I fear that's not the case, because it seems like there's one cause all men refuse to fight for, which is women's rights.

https://metro.co.uk/2023/06/20/inside-the-world-of-andrew-tate-and-the-alpha-male-movement-3-18981654/

So, Andrew Tate works on a sort of 'grooming' level. He hooks his fans in by beginning with sensible advice- stuff that nobody could really call harmful. Things like the importance of healthy living, the self respect in earning your own money, the value of hard work. Then he gets into the misogyny etc. By which point, he's already cemented himself as a man who 'talks sense' and its much harder for young men to extricate themselves.

I'm a teacher and did a citizenship lesson on this guy in a vain attempt to combat his pervasive popularity with our male cohort. The thing I found most telling was the genuine shock many of our teen boys had when they found out the girls in the group didn't like Tate. They were, as the kids say, shook to learn that most of our female students view being a Tate fan as a massive red flag. It did more to achieve my lesson objective than anything I said tbh.