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Spencer Matthews: Finding Michael *MNHQ adding spoiler alert on this one*

89 replies

Moonicorn · 08/03/2023 22:19

AIBU to think there’s something a bit distasteful about this documentary? Filming dead bodies, risking the lives of Sherpas to find his brother who has long passed… okay I know they’re being paid, but it seems a bit exploitative, or is it me? Very sorry for his loss of course, but endangering more lives for the film just seems a bit 😐

I haven’t actually seen it by the way, I don’t have Disney+ but I also feel it would be a bit ‘ghoulish’. Maybe it’s just me.

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ExcaliburBaby · 09/03/2023 04:01

I posted the below on the Telly Addicts thread

The whole ethics of Everest I find troubling generally. It felt a bit cynical to me, ie we have to bring someone down after spending all this money and making this film. But the family of the man they recovered wont care, as they’ve got him back and perhaps that’s all that matters. It felt a bit exploitative to me in terms of the film wanting some kind of resolution. But as I say, I find the whole ethics of Everest a bit distasteful in relation to wealthy people paying to climb it and nepalese people putting their lives at risk to facilitate this. Imagine if one of the Sherpas were killed during this operation? Having said that, I hope Spencer and his family feel like they have got some kind of peace now - Michael is clearly at rest somewhere covered up rather than being just on the mountainside which I think must be a comfort.

ive also read Into Thin Air (which the brilliant film Everest is loosely based) and it’s a really good read about the whole Everest climbing industry and how things can do badly wrong.

footstoop · 09/03/2023 05:34

The Sherpa population are adapted to high altitude living. Professional guides within the Sherpa community know the mountain like the backs of their hands. I would imagine this particular journey was safer than most because everyone will have been properly insured etc. No short cuts.

It's still really dangerous for the sherpas & some don't always have the best equipment. There was a documentary about them & it made me uncomfortable tbh.

Yes there are bodies discarded which is sad but it's often too dangerous to retrieve them.

footstoop · 09/03/2023 05:38

I understand why you would want to find your brothers body, but it seems disrespectful and strange to be filmed doing so.

I assume the tv show paid for the trip

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Moonicorn · 09/03/2023 05:45

Gillbil · 09/03/2023 00:34

100% agree, it's a very 'my life is worth more than yours' vibe

Or even, my brother’s body is worth risking the lives of Sherpas? If it was a ‘rescue’ operation (not that that could happen), it would make more sense, but risking everyone for a body just seems mad.

The bodies per se don’t surprise me I knew the place was full of them, but I see little point in attempting to move or recover them. As far as I’m aware they know the risk going up, are happy to take that chance and know if anything happens to them then rescue or recovery is very unlikely.

Anyway I’ll give it a watch tomorrow, I asked DH yesterday and we do have Disney+ as it turns out!

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footstoop · 09/03/2023 05:47

The Last Mountain is a fascinating film. Mother and son mountain climbers.

I agree.

Zanatdy · 09/03/2023 06:12

Jusmakingit · 08/03/2023 22:45

Me and DH watched it this evening, I understand he wants to find his brother but after 20 odd years it was questionable that someone sending him a picture of a body seen on Everest they thought was his brother spurred them to set up this search team . Sadly one person from the search team knew who that body was and it wasn’t his brother. Soon the realisation that it is a very low possibility they would find him they carried on. The search team passing several dead bodies and then in the end decided to retrieve someone else’s brother to do some good.

DH was horrified there were so many bodies just laying around and after some Googling , it seems they are just literally scattered around even on the routes people pass . There’s clearly no respect for these peoples remains as online people say they are used as markers for the people climbing . I understand it costs a lot of money , time and other people’s lives to retrieve them from the mountain.

it’s very sad and I don’t think after 20 something years, even if they did find him I can’t imagine it would give them closure considering the state some of these bodies look like in the ice all this time. I understand his reasons and intentions behind it, and as he said being there and learning about the conditions of Everest and the route his brother did made him know more about him and made him feel more connected to him but I think it’s been to long to expect to find it.

The closure would be in bringing his body home for burial, I don’t think the condition of his body makes any difference to the need for wanting to bring his body home from the mountain. They will be expecting that the body will have decomposed somewhat, maybe less than you’d expect normally given the cold conditions. Spencer wanted his mum to have that closure in a grave to visit so every point in doing it but I doubt they will ever find him

MarshaMelrose · 09/03/2023 07:14

Lavender14 · 09/03/2023 00:04

I don't think sherpas are offered so much that they are rolling in it and living extravagant lifestyles considering the massive levels of risk they take on every time they go to Everest. Lots of sherpas are killed in the process and there's also issues with how easy it is to pay for access to Everest and more ill-equipped and inexperienced climbers are paying for access every year which puts the sherpas in increasingly dangerous positions such as the climbing tourist refusing to turn back on the sherpas advice leaving the sherpa to decide to leave them to die or continue with them and maybe die themselves. The money they get makes a difference but its still exploitative. They also rarely get credit for their involvement in record setting etc.

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The money they get from foreigners is huge in comparison to their wages. Just small increases in money can maKe a big difference to their lives.

I wrote about deaths on everest in another post.

It's not exploitative. They're not stupid. They're highly skilled and knowledgeable. They can make decisions for themselves.about whether to do it or not. It's a bit patronising to think you know better than them just because they're poorer than you.

MarshaMelrose · 09/03/2023 07:17

He has really mellowed since being in MIC. He’s completely sober now which must make a big difference. Also I think a lot of his behaviour on the show was an act..

Yeah, I dunno. I think he really was a serial cheater.

footstoop · 09/03/2023 07:22

The money they get from foreigners is huge in comparison to their wages. Just small increases in money can maKe a big difference to their lives.

and you're arguing it's not exploitative?

footstoop · 09/03/2023 07:23

www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-48464030.amp

Letsrunabath · 09/03/2023 07:50

Look up the Michael Mathews foundation. They really do make a difference to children’s lives, this film will raise awareness.

MarshaMelrose · 09/03/2023 07:55

footstoop · 09/03/2023 07:22

The money they get from foreigners is huge in comparison to their wages. Just small increases in money can maKe a big difference to their lives.

and you're arguing it's not exploitative?

I don't think it's up to any of us to decide that they shouldn't do it so withhold the offer. They're grown men who make their living working on Everest. I have enough respect for them to let them make their own decisions.

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Moonicorn · 09/03/2023 10:06

MarshaMelrose · 09/03/2023 07:14

The money they get from foreigners is huge in comparison to their wages. Just small increases in money can maKe a big difference to their lives.

I wrote about deaths on everest in another post.

It's not exploitative. They're not stupid. They're highly skilled and knowledgeable. They can make decisions for themselves.about whether to do it or not. It's a bit patronising to think you know better than them just because they're poorer than you.

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Nobody said they were stupid. They’re the best at what they do, but that doesn’t mean it’s not very dangerous. I’m watching it now, I’m at the part where they’re showing the search team on the map where Michael vanished. You can see in their eyes they’re thinking ‘you’ve got no chance of finding him’, maybe just me 🤷🏼‍♀️

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Original poster
Moonicorn · 09/03/2023 10:10

MarshaMelrose · 09/03/2023 07:55

I don't think it's up to any of us to decide that they shouldn't do it so withhold the offer. They're grown men who make their living working on Everest. I have enough respect for them to let them make their own decisions.

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We’re not deciding; we don’t have that power.

And okay, but I hope you feel similarly about escorting and other dangerous occupations where the person ‘could get another job’ but clearly feels the risk is worth the money. And don’t have contempt for the people who ‘employ’ them. That’s how I see this - an element of choice, but not a full choice.

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MarshaMelrose · 09/03/2023 11:47

Moonicorn · 09/03/2023 10:10

We’re not deciding; we don’t have that power.

And okay, but I hope you feel similarly about escorting and other dangerous occupations where the person ‘could get another job’ but clearly feels the risk is worth the money. And don’t have contempt for the people who ‘employ’ them. That’s how I see this - an element of choice, but not a full choice.

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Er, excuse me. I never said anything about 'they could get another job' nor I haven't shown contempt for anyone.
You're right, you don't decide. They do. I respect them for the job they do and believe they can make their own decisions. The alternative is banning all activity on Everest and I'm not sure they'd thank you for that.
Choice is a luxury many people don't have.

alltoowe · 09/03/2023 14:46

I thought it was a tremendous watch! I really disliked Spencer from his made in Chelsea days but he's actually turned out to be a very fine person.

60smusic · 09/03/2023 18:53

I enjoyed the documentary. I can't comment on Spencer as I don't know him, but he came across as a lovely young man.

I think the family may have accepted 23 years ago that Michael wasn't coming home, much like the many thousands that unfortunately lost their lives. It was only when the photo was sent to them a few years ago, 2019 I think? That it stired up feelings about rescuing the body . Which many of us would want to do if we knew there was a chance of finding our family. I'm sure it took time to organise this too.

The sherpas were amazing, I found them to be respectful of the bodies, praying and blessing themselves. Unfortunately they have to dig ice on and around the bodies to identify the clothing, there was no other way to do this, they blurred it out but you could see they weren't hacking away at the bodies, they went gently on the body but more force around the bodies.

The sherpas went up and down Everest multiple times a day, these men were very experienced and knew the mountain inside out. Yes, they are risking their lives, they know this, they acknowledge this, they were like machines doing their job. Much respect to them.

It was lovely that Spencer was able to bring the young man down to his family, it doesn't matter who funded this, or who feels it was all publicly, you could see in Spencer's eyes he was upset speaking to them when the mother broke down and how humble he was when he seen the children crying at the end. A family got their loved one home.

Everyone knows about Everest, we all know that many climbers don't come down, we know that their bodies are 'buried' there and with weather changes etc a lot of the time they are visible, I think the makers of the programme were respectful at blurring out the bodies, I think there was a delay on the release of the programme surrounding this? It wasn't graphic and was very informative.

footstoop · 09/03/2023 20:44

I don't think it's up to any of us to decide that they shouldn't do it so withhold the offer. They're grown men who make their living working on Everest. I have enough respect for them to let them make their own decisions.

I think you misunderstood my post. I've never said they aren't intelligent or capable of making their own decisions? One can be respectful of them & their abilities but acknowledge they don't have as many choices employment wise as many of the climbers they are employed by.

MarshaMelrose · 09/03/2023 21:35

I think you misunderstood my post. I've never said they aren't intelligent or capable of making their own decisions? One can be respectful of them & their abilities but acknowledge they don't have as many choices employment wise as many of the climbers they are employed by.

It's a developing country so of course many people have less employment choices than those in developed countries. Does that mean they shouldn't be offered work doing what only they can do? Does it mean that they should never be offered those choices?
I'm not really sure what your point is or what you think the situation should be.

Original poster
Moonicorn · 09/03/2023 21:40

MarshaMelrose · 09/03/2023 21:35

I think you misunderstood my post. I've never said they aren't intelligent or capable of making their own decisions? One can be respectful of them & their abilities but acknowledge they don't have as many choices employment wise as many of the climbers they are employed by.

It's a developing country so of course many people have less employment choices than those in developed countries. Does that mean they shouldn't be offered work doing what only they can do? Does it mean that they should never be offered those choices?
I'm not really sure what your point is or what you think the situation should be.

I understand that position it’s just interesting that logic is never applied to sex work on MN. Which may seem random but it seems to be a big topic on here.

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footstoop · 09/03/2023 22:36

Does that mean they shouldn't be offered work doing what only they can do? Does it mean that they should never be offered those choices?
I'm not really sure what your point is or what you think the situation should be.

I made the point that I felt it somewhat exploitative & linked an article I had read from a sherpa's pov. You don't think it is so we will have to agree to disagree.

Lavender14 · 10/03/2023 00:22

"The money they get from foreigners is huge in comparison to their wages. Just small increases in money can maKe a big difference to their lives."

@MarshaMelrose my point is just that while it can make a difference to their lives I still don't think it is equal to the risks they take in doing their work. Which means they are still being underpaid as a result and that is exploitative. They are highly skilled and trained but those are the exact reasons why they should be earning a fair wage for the job, the danger and their skill set. To say otherwise is almost like saying oh it's fine because they're poor they should be happy with what they get. The bulk of the money made from everest goes into a corrupt government, not to the people in those communities.

Lavender14 · 10/03/2023 00:24

"While Western Guides make around 50,000 dollars each climbing season, Sherpa Guides make a mere 4,000, barely enough to support their families. Although this is more money than the average person in Nepal makes, their earnings do come at a cost – Sherpas risk their lives with every climb." There's a massive wage gap that was as of 2021.

derbylass81 · 11/03/2023 12:17

CatsShittyArses · 08/03/2023 23:40

I've just watched it. I've read up about Everest a while ago and so wasn't surprised by the number of bodies up there.

You should watch this before giving judgement.

I guess he was trying to do this for closure, the same as somebody wanting to retrieve a body in a murder case etc. Unless you've lost somebody dear to you and not had their body to bury/cremate then it would be hard for you to appreciate the loss. If you watch the documentary you will be able to witness the closure that it brings another family by retrieving the body.

I thought it was a very moving documentary and whilst I didn't previously like Spencer or Vogue, he comes across very likeable in the documentary and I had nothing but sympathy for him and his family. Having read up about Sherpas previously I also had a lot of respect for the hard work they did too and am glad that Spencer was able to honour a Sherpa family at the end.

I saw it differently.

I could understand Spencer and his family wanting closure and wanting to bring his body back to the UK.

But I didn't see that it did any good for the Sherpas family. The brother was very gracious in thanking Spencer for doing it, but watching the Sherpas daughters crying was painful and I just don't see the benefit.

For a lot of people in the mountaineering community - if you die on Everest, you stay on Everest. I guess it's kind of like a captain going down with his ship, or a Vikings burial at sea. Whilst there is no "burial" on Everest, the snow and ice does bury many.

It would have cost a lot of money retrieving that body and I feel the money would have been better going directly to the Sherpas family.

When Spencer said he wouldn't be able to forget the daughters crying, he looked shocked and I think he suspected maybe he hadn't done the right thing.

derbylass81 · 11/03/2023 12:20

Christmascracker0 · 09/03/2023 00:17

I haven’t watched it but I’d really like to! It must be so difficult to think about your big brother just being out there. I’m sure if anyone else had the time, money and access to a film crew they would do the same as Spencer.

He has really mellowed since being in MIC. He’s completely sober now which must make a big difference. Also I think a lot of his behaviour on the show was an act..

I hadn't seen him on Made in Chelsea so had no opinion of him prior to watching it.

I didn't think he came across particularly well. I appreciate he was in a highly stressful, emotional situation but he spoke to people (Sherpas, mostly) quite sharply a few times. I could sense an arrogance and a lack of graciousness that people either have or they don't.

But, as I say, was a highly stressed situation and possibly not fair to judge him on it.