How do I discipline a 12 yr old that has anger management issues?

[Mittz]

The whole story is very long, but briefly, my DS has anger management problems, low self esteem, challenging in nature but energetic, effervescent and bright. We mostly have a loving close relationship since his Dad left ( 1 year ago this week ).

DS and I have worked together to help manage his anger. But he admitted last week he thinks he has two people in his head, and has named the 'angry one'. He said he wanted to die and that he was a waste of space.

I don't often shout or get angry, and deal with things through negotiation, giving him choices so he can feel good about doing the right thing, and occasionally loss of privilages if things go awry. It seems to work.

I have had a bad weekend. Again, briefly, 'H' was emotionally abusive and I am slowly learning to not engage. He left a year ago in a drunken rage. It was our wedding anniversary on Saturday. He had been slowly winding me up despite my trying not to let him.

He wanted to go away for the weekend as we married on his birthday. But wouldn't tell the kids where he was going, when I asked him about it he accused me of sabotaging his trip.
We went to watch the match last Sunday (I was invited with DC's, they told him and as we were at a pub the DC's asked if he could join us.) He turned up in German strip colours.
When I asked about picking them up from his he was being cocky and evasive (''hmm.. maybe I'll drop them off, maybe you'll pick them up who knows? we'll see, I'll text you'')
When I then later made a comment about his trip (said I hped it went OK) he said I was being flippant and did I realise this was an emotional, sad reflective trip (he was returning to where we went for our first holiday).

I wanted a quiet day to sort things today but the Father of a friend of DD's asked me to mind his DD while he went to a party for a couple of hours. I said yes, but when he arranged to pick her up it was over 4 hrs later.

So. DC's in the garden with loads of friends when the girls come down to say my DS was being cruel to frogs.

I initialy was cross but firm, and I think fair about what I though but DS was rude and cocky (he is when his friends are around) and denied it. It turns out he was pretty horrible, dangling one by it's leg and 'throwing' it, and 'dropping' others into the pond. I said I was stopping his pocket money.

He started to get into a rage, said I was embarrassing him in front of his friends (I had gone to the house to avoid this, not told him off in front of his mates) He started kicking and shoving things, but I had had enough.

I asked him for his phone, and he started blaming me for his life being crap, insulting me and sneering at me.

How do I deal with this? I needed to be the parent, but as soon as I am he plies me with 'you don;t understand what it is like inside my head'.

His friends left a little later and I asked him to do the washing up, again he was rude and surly, broke a plate and a glass, blamed me for everything, drenched the kitchen, whilst a tirade of bitterness and verbal abuse is being hurled at me.

He admitted some thing snaps in his head when he doesn't get his own way.

I am exhausted emotionally and mentally. Worried about his state of mind, but there are times when I need to be able to deal with issues without it becoming an emotional nightmare.

As soon as I have to be firm, I get the whole lot..''do you realise I have been bullied, what Dad did to me, I'm not right in the head''

And he wont stop. I asked, insisted, and demanded in the end that at the very least he try to stop saying all the vile things that were in his mind, because however much I understand his feelings, it hurts to be on the receiving end of them.

I have worries about my mum and dad, I couldn't call them. I wanted him to just stop. But he can't/won't. As he calmed down, I was firm that he did the jobs that I had asked him to do. And he went out.

And I broke down. Have had enough.

We were having the rages 2 or 3 times a day most days but now to be fair they are rare, but as I say, the minute I need to step up to 'parent' mode, I go through hell.

So long I am sorry, but I am struggling to cope at the moment with worrying about the state of his mind, my own feelings, being a lone parent............

Presumably you have been to the GP to start getting this addressed through counselling? It sounds perhaps as if you and he might benefit from some family counselling so that you can start addressing what's going on together with a mediator and identifying strategies to deal with it. It sounds as if he has worked out that it is a good way to emotionally manipulate you and is using that to his advantage - probably playing on any guilt you feel about your separation from your H as well.

Oh, bless.

TBH, I think any 12 year old would react in a similar way if told their pocket money was being stopped.

My DS is similar, but has not been though his parents separating, and he has a good relationship with DH.

Personally I wouldn't have stopped the pocket money when he was being cruel to the frog ( I would have given a lecture and made him feel guilty) I'm not saying I am right, and you weren't just what I would have done on the spur of the moment.

I also wouldn't have made him do the washing up when he was in a bad mood. Again, I'm not saying you shouldn't have.

He's pushing the boundaries, and you are enforcing them....sounds like you are doing spectacularly well to me. I bet he turn out lovely in a few years.

Look after yourself, so you can look after him.

My mum used to give me my child benefit as a stroppy teen as my 'monthly allowance'.

The total would be written on a white boeard in the kitchen and every time I misbehaved (mostly moaning about drying dishes, bickering with siblings and backchat IIRC)

a small amount would be deducted from the total and recalculated on the whiteboard.It worked a treat on me, twas very sad seeing the money go down!

I'm planning to do simlar with ds when he hits that stage.

What I mean is -if she'd taken the whole amount all at once, I would have been so enraged it would have made my bevaiour much worse, as nothing left to lose IFSWIM.

Yes. I see what you mean.

I don't normally do something so strict, but I really did feel strongly about what he was doing. There have been a couple of similar incidents, although not quite as cruel. He does know how I feel about how we treat animals. But yes, my stress and frustration maybe made me to harsh.

The washing up... again, stress and frustration because he doesn't contribute at all without a fuss. I did say he should leave it till he calmed down and that he could go out once it had been done. I tried to go to another room to calm down and get my thoughts together but he kept shouting that I was abandoning him and I didn't care about him and I am the only person in the world who can sort his head out.

He has been with CAMHS and had an SS counsellor but was discharged. He said he didn't trust them. That they are useless.

We have done really well since his Dad left. But I am tired and fed up. We had been out for breakfast and had a lovely start.

"but he kept shouting that I was abandoning him and I didn't care about him and I am the only person in the world who can sort his head out."

I don't think he was trying to manipulate you as such, but he was saying he needs you.

I think 12 year old boys are still very little inside a lot of the time.

No, he wasn't trying to 'manipulate' me, and I do indeed recognise his needs and insecurities, and most of the time I am very good at dealing with them, but it really scrambles my head when he says those things when he has made me cross.

Not so much now but he treated his sister very badly for a long time, a knock on effect from things with his Dad and when I started to deal with it he would again start to go into these deep emotional places and however much I understand and ache for what he has been through, there are times when I get frustrated that I can't simple deal with the situation in hand.
To simplify it it is like someone deliberately breaking something of yours and then if you get cross and object, saying that you don't understand and turning the situation into something else.

I just wanted to deal with what he had done to the frog but whether he means to or not, when I have to remind him that a or b is not on, he is very quick to bring up other issues, so how do I parent effectively, if it is always going to get 'hijacked'.

He repeatedly comes in late.. he needs to learn that this is not on but when I start to tackle it.. he again will very soon make it about his 'issues'.

Oh lord, I have ached and ached for what he has been through. I have to admit I find it hard putting the pieces back together and trying to lead a normal life.

Don't feel like the man for the job at the moment , because I too am in pieces.

It sounds like you have had a really difficult time and are exhausted. You are doing a really good job with your ds - you acknowledge his issues and are doing your best to help him.
Don't give up, you are doing so well.

that is probably about it groggy..............

keep strong . I have an eleven year old DS and he does the transfering thing admitidly (sp) on a much smaller scale ie I have been a pain in the arse and been rude to you not because I didnt get my own way it was Blah Blah Blah . You get my drift . I just wanted you to know its a normal thing but your DS just goes alot further with it . Best of luck .

Do get your son some counselling. Does his school have a support worker? Do they know about the issues?

When you are both calm do talk about how awful this weekend was for you, don't put blame on his Dad, but explain how those actions made ou feel. Do explain grown ups are people too, and sometimes find it hard. If you have had, or are having any counselling tell him about that too. Do get him someone he can off load onto about the stuff that stresses him (and will know if there is anything more than a tough situation and teenager hormones).

Good luck!

thanks over, I was very emotional yesterday but on reflection I still think what he did deserved more than a telling off. Showing off by being cruel to animals is not something I am prepared to accept. He is old enough to know better even if he is still a 'little' boy.

And he might not be manipulating me on purpose now, but as he grew up with someone who behaved in that way when they had behaved badly, he is in danger of tagging all his issues on to every incident where I have to step up the way I handle things because of x or y.

It makes me feel guilty and confused and then the issue at hand gets lost and I need to be able to separate the two sometimes.

But then I also need to do similar because I was in a bad place because I am tired and stressed. Lead by example. Although I couldn't lead a lemming off the edge of a cliff at the moment.

i think you're great because you are teachng your son compassion. You could suggest to your son that he rings ChildLine or uses their on-line chat or email service. Might be of use... hope you are feeling better today.

there's a book called something like "volcano in my tummy" which is really good to work through with children with anger issues - may be worth looking at?

I think you're doing a great job teaching him respect for animals...I guess he just sees red and can't control his anger - he really needs to learn techniques as a life-long skill in all his relationships. There should be counselling or groups in your area that offer help with this - have school got a counsellor?

Often kids that age ust need someone impartial to listen to them and to help with coping strategies. Maybe he didn't have a good counsellor the first time and might be worth a second try?

My DS has just turned 13. He too has anger issues. We had a series of sessions with a counsellor attached (not literally) to his school. That helped a lot.

Also, what about CRUSE - I know that they're for bereavement counselling, but really, your son is suffering bereavement. They have people who specialise in counselling children, so that might be a port of call.

I also get the "you don't understand" to which I reply "You need to control your temper" said rather forcefully. I also will not allow him to hijack our family with his issues. We all have/had issues, but my son is not going to run our household. I realise that he's testing boundaries but if he pushes too far, he'll get pocket money taken away, no TV, grounded etc.

Also, I have to keep reminding my DS that it's not ALL about him. Although, I do know that he's got a fair amount on his plate.

As regards your DS, I wonder if getting in touch with CAHMS again and telling them what he has said, would get the ball rolling?

HTH

Thanks.....

Will get hold of that book thirty, it has been recommended before but has slipped my mind.

The 'seeing red' thing is exactly it. We have issues that come up all the time and deal with them in balanced way, as I said, negotiating, recognising the signs, discussing, we do make a good team, if I might say so myself. But when something triggers an outburst, none of that helps, and I get frustrated that I don't seem to be able to connect and it is like his anger has to run it's course, whatever the consequences before we can get back on track, and it doesn't matter how bad I am feeling, I have to deal with it, and yesterday, I felt so bad anyway.

It is hard without going into a lot of depth to describe how we got to this point, but he simply would not talk to the professionals that were there to help. He would sit and be polite, say everything was OK and I looked like an over anxious Muppet. He says I am the only person who can fix him and that scares me because on days like yesterday, I recognises I am floundering.

I will re contact CAMHS though. The suicide and personality issues concern me and I don't want them to be warning bells for something and miss them.

Your post helps also Lemony because I don't feel quite so 'wrong' about it all. Cruse is a good idea, his issues are linked to 3 bereavements and I had not thought of them.

Thank you, this has really helped so far, and DS and I were back on track this morning, but I need to develop new strategies to reduce these kind of events. xx

Mittz My DS has had 3 bereavements in as many years. His G/Dad, his Dad several months later and his step-dad-to-be 3 years later but also the birth of his sister 3 months after my OH died. (Not point scoring, but agreeing that they do add up, iykwim).

I think that a lot of people make the mistake of thinking that boys aren't as sensitive as girls and I think a lot of the time, it's the other way round.

I know what you mean about the suicide bit, my DS found my Stanley knife, slashed his wrist, came down and almost shouted a me "look what I've done". My reaction was very low key "that wasn't a good idea", "that was a bit silly" (not to be cruel, but so he realised that he couldn't do it again to get a shocked/upset reaction from me). I did immediately book an appointment at the doctor, who said "that wasn't a good idea", "that was a bit silly" - which gave me the confidence that I'd done the right thing in not letting the incident become one which he would repeat to get a reaction. We were referred to CAHMS, but they discharged him after one meeting as they could see that it was a bereavement issue, rather than a mental health issue.

I am sometimes at a loss as to how to deal with my DS, so I treat him like a tantruming 2 year old. He does say that he sees red and I'm in the middle of figuring out how to deal with that.

Don't be afraid to contact the school and CAHMS - you'd be surprised at the amount of help there is out there if you know where to look.

Good luck.

It's OK, it helps to understand the triggers. And I am so so sorry, you have been so much yourself, it must be difficult for yourself as well..

DS lost 3 grandparents in 3/4 years, and his Dad had an alcohol problem. The rages started after the last bereavement, and his Dad couldn't handle them, told me I had to put DS up for adoption or he would leave (in front of DS) and then we tried to fix things, but still told him he would wind up in care. Whilst being an emotionally/ verbally abusive and sometimes physically agressive drunk.

I truly truly am very wary of DS's emotions and and we work to deal with them but my frustration arises as I say when he does something that is unquestionably wrong, I try to deal with it and suddenly we get a tsunami of anger and hurt.

And he can't 'shut up', all the stuff that he keeps saying can be so hard to hear and not react to, when he is being hurtful. Yesterday, I asked him to try really hard to think about what he was saying because It was so awful. But he was too angry.

I have just heard of a group that help children of parents with alcohol problems.. I really do need a boost of help at the moment.

It's a year down the line. I feel we should be OK, and in so many ways are in such a better place but also have some way to go.

Thank you again x

I would definitely carry on trying to get him some help. Yes, tsunami of anger and hurt is about it. I get the floods of tears that go with it, too.

Your DS sounds like he's lost so much in losing his grandparents and also (he may well feel) the love of his Dad and think that it's all his fault (as kids tend to do). It's also an ongoing thing with his Dad too.

Actually, I think that you're doing really, really well with your DS. He sounds like he loves you very much (and therefore feels safe enough to vent at you) - but that doesn't make you feel any better, I know.