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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think this is dodgy and I could end up homeless?

48 replies

messybedhead · 02/07/2010 10:45

I'm writing this on my phone so forgive any mistakes.
I'm renting a house which is being sold to a neighbour of mine. This neighbour has told me I can continue to rent it.

He has applied for a buy to let mortgage and he has showed me the mortgage application he made.

My lettings agent phoned me to tell me that a surveyor is coming round on monday at ten o'clock and that not only can I not be here, but I must remove any trace of anyone living here. They want me to move everything- the cot, toys, pictures, all our clothes and bits, everything!

Now I know there is some sort of dodgy arrangement and I think my neighbour is getting the mortgage through my estate agent which is why they are involved with the surveyor...

But I mean surely a surveyor looks at the structure of the building and doesn't care who is living in the house at the moment.

My mum reckons that I'd be completely stupid to do this because once I move everything of mine out and give over my key , then they could argue I've moved out of the property of my own accord and basically this could be there way of evicting me.

If you've read this far than thank you! What I want to know is AIBU to refuse to cooperate, or does anyone know of a type of mortgage where the surveyor needs to see a vacant property?

Thanks.

OP posts:

Mingg · 02/07/2010 12:19

Whatever you do, do not move your belongings out and get some legal advice from CAB. Assured periodic tenancies are difficult to terminate (if indeed you have one) and to me this seems like they are trying get you to leave the property so that they can terminate the tenancy on the grounds of you moving out.

slug · 02/07/2010 12:22

The only answer to the letting agent is "I'll need that request in writing". And refuse to even consider it without.

paisleyleaf · 02/07/2010 12:25

and where do they expect you to put all your stuff?
What if you're doing something else over the weekend?
No way!

BAFE · 02/07/2010 12:27

Yeah, asking for it in writing is a very good idea

I agree with everyone else, it's very suspicious sounding

dinopiratesruleok · 02/07/2010 12:34

Very Dodgy check out Shelters website it has loads of advice or give them a ring am sure they will tell you to stay put you have every right to remain and dont even have to let them in if not convenient. Dont be bullied or convinced until you have advice from shelter or cab.

Original poster

messybedhead · 02/07/2010 12:35

God knows where they expect me to put my stuff! I'm going to speak to them again this afternoon and see what they say.

OP posts:

miso · 02/07/2010 12:44

IF there was a good reason for a tenant to have to move out temporarily, at short notice, through no fault of their own (e.g. a boiler exploding or something) I'm pretty sure the landlord would be supposed to find alternative accomodation, or at least pay for it. Compensating for the cost of moving wouldn't be unusual either.

Are you expected to move out for just one day? What if the surveyor cancelled the appointment & said they couldn't come till next week?

Sounds dodgy as fuck, & very unprofessional of the letting agent.

lucky1979 · 02/07/2010 12:46

I think slug is absolutely right and you need to get the request in writing.

If they were trying to prove the property empty, it would make more sense for them to ask you to lie and say that you were moving out next month, rather than move all your stuff out and pretend to be already gone. Much easier for eveyone.

No matter what, you need to be there on Monday, because the other option is that, along with the surveyor there is a locksmith coming to change the locks as you have vacated the property (as evidenced by a survey saying property vacant).

Do you have any contact with the current owner of the house? The only other possible explanation which doesn't involve sneaky eviction is that your current landlord doesn't have a buy to let mortgage so you have been living there in breach of the current mortgage (his problem not yours).

It also seems a bit weird your neighbour would make a point of showing you the mortgage application at all - I think he's making too much of a point of it!

Original poster

messybedhead · 02/07/2010 12:58

I do trust my neighbours we are friends and get on, but at the end of the day it isn't their property until they own it. Its the dodgy estate agent I don't trust!

OP posts:

swallowedAfly · 02/07/2010 12:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

foreverastudent · 02/07/2010 12:59

The reason they want no trace of you is that a house with a sitting tenant is worth less (by as much as 50%) than a vacant property. You have a right to live there until you are legally evicted, so anyone buying it wouldn't be able to take full possession until they had gone through the potentially long and expensive process of evicting you.

The law hasn't caught up with reality of BTL. In practice, if the buyer is buying as a BTL then it should be advantageous to have a sitting tenant.

Asking you to leave, even temporarily, is illegal eviction- don't do it!

Cant the current owner say it is owner-occupied, or that you are a friend/relative staying there for free?

Original poster

messybedhead · 02/07/2010 13:02

Well this is what I said... Can't I be the owner's girlfriend or daughter who's staying temporarily. They don't need to know I'm renting it. They haven't thought this through very well.

OP posts:

swallowedAfly · 02/07/2010 13:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

PanicMode · 02/07/2010 13:18

Do you have an Assured Shorthold Tenancy (AST) or are you a tenant on a protected rent? If the former, then the house will not be worth less if you leave - in fact the opposite. If you are the latter, then yes, the house would be worth more without a tenant on a protected rent.

DO NOT MOVE YOUR STUFF - you would be surrendering your lease and the landlord can take possession.

If you have an AST then the contract continues onwards from the statutory 6 month term certain you are allowed by law, and you must be given 2 months notice by the landlord (you have to give a month).

Sounds dodgy to me, but not sure what the dodge is....but do not be bullied into leaving your home.

diamondsandtiaras · 02/07/2010 13:24

absolutely don't move your stuff out. And don't do anything without having it in writing first. If you are paying rent, then that rent obviously also includes the day he is asking you to be out for.......if it's kosher he should be paying for somewhere else for you to go because you will be out of pocket. I can't work out what his motives may be, but don't let them bully you out.

glammanana · 02/07/2010 13:36

Under no circumstances move out of your home
my daughter paid her landlord every month on
what was supposed to be a BTL mortgage and was visited by a bailiff giving her 10 days to vacate the house,we saw a solicitor the
next day and he got an emergency hearing
due to the proof of my daughter always paying her rent to the Landlord and he granted her a four month period to find
alternative accom,and also stopped my daughter paying him anymore rent as it was not
being paid off the mortgage he had over £18K
in arrears,and this landlord was a friend,its that old saying you dont have friends when it comes to business trust me

FakePlasticTrees · 02/07/2010 13:45

don't do it!!! There is no justification for this.

Just tell the letting agent, unless you are being evicited, you will keep your things in your flat. If you need to move out for the day, you expect them to provide a moving team (you're not doing this yourself), pay for temp accomodation and you will of course, be expecting a reduction on your rent for the month for the inconvience.

Oh, and if they want to evict you on a rolling contract, I believe it's 2 months written notice required, but you should check your tenancy agreement. (It should say what happens once the fixed period is over, it's normally 1 month from you, 2 months from them)

expatinscotland · 02/07/2010 13:48

YANBU.

They may be nice neighbours and such, but at the end of the day you owe them nothing, especially not now you are not even their tenant.

If it complicates their sale, that is neither your fault nor your problem.

I'd tell that EA no more phone conversations at all. It all needs to be in writing as you have taken legal advice.

Because here's the other thing: if you moved all your stuff out, then they have gotten rid of you, but they may also retain your deposit because they can say you skipped out without due notice.

STAY PUT.

They have to follow proper eviction procedures.

And again, that's not your fault, not your problem and you're under zero obligation to assist them in that.

That's part of their fucking job, not yours.

secunda · 02/07/2010 13:48

They can't make you move your stuff out, as that is infringing your right to reasonably enjoy the property as it says in most tenancy agreements. So I would just say no, it's too much hassle thanks.

expatinscotland · 02/07/2010 13:52

I wouldn't say a damn thing to them except, 'Just to let you know, I'm taking a written record of this conversation and informing you that I've taken legal advice regarding this matter, so thenceforth I need all requests made in writing. Thanks for being so co-operative. I'm sure you understand I have my own interests to safeguard as well. Bye now.'

onadietcokebreak · 02/07/2010 13:52

Dont do and refuse to do converse with this letting agent unless in writing in future.

Also ensure you have funds in place in case your current LL gives you notice (check agreement- normally 2 mths)

Tillyscoutsmum · 02/07/2010 13:53

Very very odd

A buy to let mortgage would have the details of the tenancy on there as an occupational interest so that the lender is aware of it.

A surveyor (presumably there to do a mortgage valuation ??) would not need vacant possession to enable him to do his valuation

I am a surveyor btw and the whole thing stinks

Speak to the letting agents and just say you have a friend/family member who is a surveyor and they are a little confused about their request for you to move your stuff and could they give you an explanation in writing so you can show it to them.

paisleyleaf · 02/07/2010 14:19

Keep us informed messybedhead, it'd be interesting to know what on earth's going on.
This bit bugs me : "He speaks to me like I'm really stupid and would not understand" because I know exactly what you mean and it's often the way when someone's trying to pull the wool over your eyes.

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