to be astounded and saddened by the quantity of bullshit some women will swallow to maintain the status quo?

[Alibabaandthe40nappies]

That it's really.

There seem to be another rash of posts on here where it is pretty clear that husband/partner whoever is a lying deceitful arse. That in itself is sad enough, but when women are then choosing to believe the lies, or ignore, or brush it under the carpet it is even sadder.

I probably am BU, after all it's none of my business how people conduct their own relationship. But it is still upsetting.

hmmm

think is important to just bear in back of mind that usually just one side of the story is being heard and there is no way to establish the veracity of a poster's account

not that I ever do personally, there is just an intuitive sort of ring of authenticity

but that could be a kind of projection of own experiences

but yanbu in my opinion, as this just is really depressingly widespread and can count loads of friends who have been or still are in relationships with abusive partners (usually abusive men)

I sit in my nice house with a man I neither love or respect because I have to bide my time before I leave. I have to be in no doubt before I split up my family.

Some men never admit an affair and so leaving for anything less than absolute fact would be quite reckless for some, would you leave your children without a full time father (excuse the term) because you suspected an affair?

oh!!!! right, now name is not that scandelous!!!!!!!!!

not a bloke, just caught up reading the Twilight series of books and "EdwardCullens OtherWoman" has been taken.

Jacob Black is a werewolf, therefore it's fair to assume he may have a werewolf girlfriend (though not read ALL the books yet), and lady dogs are called bitches. So not awful really. Seriously I hadn't even thought it could be mistaken/misread for anything else!!! Until now. Will think of another doggy related one.

CALLISTO it would seem there aren't enough "good, decent men of integrity" to go around sadly. My chap is a good decent man of integrity who treats me as an equal, but he's also part tosser & can behave all shouty when stressed. If I married him, I'd like to think I could have a moan on MN about aspects of our relationship I find wearing or tiresome or stressful without people jumping to tell me to divorce him because occasionally he behaves like a prick. I'm not married as if I were I would take the vows seriously - and frankly I don't know if I believe that kind of committment is possible. And the marrieds shouting 'divorce him' at slightest provocation kind of confirms my doubts. Of course some women marry monsters & of course they should leave, but often on MN it's just someone being a prick or a bit angry & handling it badly, and I'd bet most women these days know that side of their man before they decide to get hitched & proceed with the vows.

she-wolf not bitch

wolf is not a dog is it?

if not enough 'good decent men' and this is obviously unthinkable, crazy idea, why not opt not to marry or co-habit or have anything much to do with one?

just googled and you are correct MITCHY. not quite as catchy though is it?

I dunno

is just annoying when people muddle these things up!

posieparker i agree, its such a huge decision to uproot your whole family and explain to the kids why mummy and daddy dont live in the same house when you only suspect hes 'playing away'. i mean you cant ever explain it to them without them thinking its thier fault, so i too sit in my nice house with my occasional prick of a husband and bide my time till im certain. and for 99 percent of the time were all happy

Jacobbb - I suppose I find your name offensive because you style yourself as somebody's 'bitch'. It has so many negative connotations that I feel you are saying you are owned by a bloke, you only identify yourself as being this man's property and you're lacking in self respect. The werewolf part had passed me by tbh, but I still wouldn't use the word bitch to describe myself. I'm sure that is all far too deep and over-analysed. It's my latent Germaine Greer coming out.

I have no idea whether there are enough decent men around. I've had no trouble finding them and all of my male friends are decent and respect women. But perhaps that is because I don't put up with mysogyny in any form so I choose my friends and partners with this in mind. Perhaps you should consider the possiblity that being single is preferable to being with someone who doesn't quite measure up? I would never advise someone to divorce because things are getting tricky within a marraige due to work/child/relationship stress. But there is a big difference between this (which can be worked through) and a man who sees you as his possession.

I suppose at the root of this is the problem that plenty of women can't concieve of life without marraige and babies so after a certain age will put up with a dysfunctional relationship because the alternative of being single is somehow percieved as being a failure. Whenever I see any of these threads I always wonder why these women got together with these men in the first place.

There are also members of both sexes who do not leave a shit relationship due to not wanting to be seen as a "failure".

I always think putting a principle before your actual happiness is bonkers. My aunt stayed in a dire marriage as she "had made her vows in church".

I missed the part of the vow that said "my husband will beat the shit out of and cause me to have an abortion and mistreat our child and I'll not say anything" in the vows.

But there you go.

just today i was thinking that there were an awful lot of threads at the mo on shagging about, suspected shagging about or considering shagging about

and that's not including the other relationship threads

Mayor, that's the great thing about MN though, isn't it? People who are in very unhappy marriages often have no one to talk to. Equally people in usuallyokbuthavingashitmonth marriages need to have a vent on MN as well, not necessarily with any intention of splitting up, just having a good rant.

oh am not dissing anyone for telling all on here!

just that so many people seem to be in that sort of situation atm

makes me feel slightly guilty for being happily married really (at least i am AFAIK!)

well I've stayed married due to die hard deeply ingrained beliefs about marriage is for life and you do it once and so on

which actually I don't think I do believe in at all but seems to inform my behaviour

unless am just too disorganised/miserly to get divorced?

BUT enjoy living on different continents and and the joys of restraining orders injunctions etc that mean never have to see or speak to him for past 15 or 16 yrs or so

recipe for utter domestic bliss

Surely there's a middle ground between "moody git" and "abuse"

Sometimes there are incidents here and there - maybe each one a couple of months or a year apart, and you think "ok, so he made arrangements to go out with a 19yo - he didn't go...is that worth breaking my kids heart? maybe he's just a human who slipped up"
fastforward a few months and he has done something else - then you remember the time he had a secret phone that he kept in his car. Each time you rationalize/ forgive/ reckon its not worth breaking up the marriage for. After all, he's amazing in a million other ways. Its only when you put them all together in a lump that you realise that the scales are starting to tip. There's a nagging feeling - not necessarily a decimation of trust that is clear cut.

So, I think its unfair to say that it is just a "sweeping umder the matt" to maintain the status quo- of course some women do. Others - like me were waiting for the balance to truly tip. It usually does - eventually.

oooh posie.... thats a terrible position to be in

Have you gone for counselling? YOUR happiness matters. YOUR instincts are reliable. Sorry you are going through this. I was kinda in that situation - my ex threatened to bankrupt me, leave his job, and never see the kids again. Eventually I realised that I can't be held ransom. HE is in charge of his choices. I did make sure I did everything I could to save the marriage - just so I could look at my children and not doubt the decision.

CALLISTO - it's a pun/play on words based on a currently very popular character from one of popular fictions bestselling writers for some time, and the fact that I can be a bitch sometimes, as all most women can. It is also a film or three

It is also in part a response to Edwardcullensotherowman which is a MNusername I like - it makes me smile. And the fact that I find Bella (in the above bestselling books/hit films, who is in love with Jacob but also in love with Edward) to be a silly bitch though she is growing on me (very slowly and I've just started reading the 4th book).

MITCHYINGE has just pointed out that female wolves are not called bitches but she-wolfs & I've looked at several wolf studying google sites which confirmed this. MN continues to be educational.

I couldn't find the website of anyone who studies actual werewolfs, so maybe they are called bitches (like female dogs) or maybe they are called she-werewolves. Who knows? Male characters in the book do call each other 'dog' though, so bitch is not a huge leap to make as bitch means female dog, among other things dontchaknow?

I do understand that other MN'ers might not get it, or might find JBB to be misogynistic but frankly that is more to do with them than me.

But please put your mind at rest - I am not oppressed, or owned/controlled by anyone. My OH reminds me of this regularly, quoting back to me "I am not your ruler" which is a little joke of ours. If anything I'm too independant and forthright for my own good. I am not married and have no yearning to marry my partner who I love very much. I was happily single for many years, and have no need for my partners 'money'. I feel my DD deserves to live with both her parents if at all possible despite the fact that I find being half of a couple difficult at times - always have. That is my dysfunction. Of course it is also lovely and wonderful, thankfully many more times than not. He can be a bit of prick sometimes though - that does not mean he is a misogynist or me a masochist for being with him.

You seem to be implying that women don't end up with "good, decent, respectful men" because they are prepared to tolerate misogyny to some degree - well Maybe the reason so many people are in dysfunctional relationships is because you and your mates got all the good ones! Or, more likely, maybe all relationships are dysfunctional in some aspect or another, because most people are dysfunctional to some extent.

I feel like I'm choosing between applique t-shirts and living on a large housing estate!!

Still I have an exit plan!!

"You seem to be implying that women don't end up with "good, decent, respectful men" because they are prepared to tolerate misogyny to some degree"

If anyone on MN could dissaude me of this then I would love to hear their opinions.

Of course most of us are prepared to tolerate misogyny to some degree. If we're heterosexual and want to be in a relationship, we are going to have to deal with some deeply ingrained sexism at least.

We could choose to live on our own, but if we have children that puts us at risk.

Maybe living in a shit marriage is less shit than being divorced. Maybe it depends on what exactly makes you feel worse. Living in the shithole I could afford without DH would definitely make me feel worse than living with him here.

Why assume women staying in imperfect marriages are being stupid? Perhaps they know themselves and have made their informed choices. Surely, instead of pity, derision, etc, these women deserve some respect?

www.amazon.co.uk/Difficult-Men-Strategies-Women-Chose/dp/0749322446/ref=sr_1_11?i e=UTF8&s=books&qid=1278099259&sr=1-11

I think that even in 2010 for many people being married=success and being single/divorced=failure. It is very sad but i suspect many people think this way even if they dont verbalize it. It is a bit like racism and homophobia, if you read between the lines you can see that it still exist.

The other day i was with some friends and they were talking about another friend whos 40 something and single. She is gorgeous, good career, amazing life. Still everybody refers to her as 'poor S'! They even said 'it is tricky when they have parties as all other guests are couples'!
It is no wonder many women stay in bad marriages or get married for the sake of it.

Purpleduck - exactly!

It can be so difficult. Stuff happens here and there, but the times in between can be quite nice. And in addition, there are the explanations which make everything look so unimportant so you can't be sure if you overreacted or if you're the bad person for judging him too harshly...