to think that male subordinates can be...

[IfancyKevinELevin]

real twunts sometimes. Does this happen to any one else...?

I'm a manager of 4 women and 6 men, my BF is one of 12 men. We were discussing yesterday the etiquette of introducing people to new contacts.

We are both open managers and treat people equally regardless of time/experience in the business.

I never introduce myself as someone's line manager, but I always introduce my line manger (female) as just that - she's my director/line manager etc.

Not one of my male team members or my bessie mate's can summon up the guts to introduce us as their line manager etc. They always say colleague and make it sound as if we are working for them.

I have a humourous time watching them squirm when someone says to me "how long have you worked for so and so?" and I say "Never, he works for me.."

Maybe it's just sales executives ..

It did lots when I was working! On the flip side though... I used to use it to my advantage and laugh all the way to my impromptu coffee break when a complaining winging time wasting complaint customer would bypass me because he assumed the male was the boss!!!! Ha, did used to make me laugh though, perhaps it is a sales things, big egos and all that!

Yanbu

My subordinates were always quick to point out that I was the more senior. This was twenty years ago. Am that this is still happening.

Mind you I worked in IT. Maybe it's a macho sales ego thing.

Perhaps you need to take charge more. Make sure you march into meetings first, shake hands firmly, and say "Hello, I'm IFKE,national sales director and this is XY, the area manager for the south east" or whatever.

Tell your subordinates that it's completely unacceptable for them not to give you your proper title when introducing you, not to mention rude, and that it'll be reflected on their appraisal if they do it again.

Sometimes being egalitarian doesn't work. You can't really be a friend to your subordinates. One day you will need to fire some-one or make them redundant, or tell them they're not going to get the promotion/pay rise they wanted. It is so much harder to do if they are a friend.

You need to be able to harness your inner bitch.

It's not a problem Butterbur, more of an observation really. We were conversing on how much we almost use it as a test sometimes (just joined and meeting a lot of their contacts)then introduce ourselves and watch them try and squirm uncomfortably out of it.

Just would never bother me to introduce my male line manager that way.

I have NO problem establishing my authority, am in the process of sacking two this month.

I just preferred my previous all female environ where work was about results, consistency and enjoyment. Not bravado from the billy big balls. I would never have used the word subordinates before without this much enjoyment...

Oh well, back to work

"Mind you I worked in IT. Maybe it's a macho sales ego thing."

Butterbur Could be something in that. I have worked in IT for over 25 years in a variety of organizations and I have encountered very little sexism.

straps on plastic testicles....

PMSL

They're just twats then. Poor you.

They'll reach the 21st century one day.

Does anyone really refer to their colleagues as "subordinates"

OP, sorry but you sound a bit hung-up on status and rather a self-righteous pain-in-the-neck

They probably do what you describe just to wind you up

Have a nice day

Thought this was a BDSM thread.

I refer to mine as "minions", but they know I'm joking..... and they don't seem to have any problem with introducing me as their team leader. I think IT is probably just much less hung-up about this than a sales environment, maybe because you can be a "subordinate/minion/whatever" and still be recognised as the expert on x,y,or z. I make sure in meetings to defer to them on points where they have the knowledge and experience, and they defer to me about prioritising, timescales, and areas where I happen to have more experience than them. So it's not about hierarchy so much as different roles.

No Anyfucker they don't, I usually refer to them as my colleagues or people.

Just enjoyed the pleasure of describing the cocks with it today, if you'll read my later post.

If I was obsessed with title and status I wouldn't let them introduce me in the first place would I. I'd storm in, in my crown, hopefully not tripping over my ermine cloak and introduce myself.

Try experiencing it for 6 years.

Could be worse I suppose, could have you working for me.

for me we wear uniforms that clearly advertise who is boss.....that wud be me...

but they are my colleagues at the end of the day, we all have one goal, and i expect, i suppose a certain level of respect and a definitive standard from them.

spose thats why they call me a dragon....when introducing me to folk

Yes in IT (my DH's profession) they let their quals, experience and expertise speak for themselves.

Am only having to do this until my overseas post starts. Then it's back to more of the product management that I love.Thank god.

My poor friend has had her sales team, as I said, for 6 years. They love to big themselves up I suppose, beat their chests, bare their teeth and fling some poo around.

Roll on September....

nah, Kevin, it's much more likely you would be working for me