To think that circumcism of under 18 year olds for non medical reason should be illegal

[Reallytired]

Cutting off a baby's boys foreskin is cruel and unless there are strong medical reasons it should be outlawed. Babies feel pain and sometimes circumcisms can go wrong.

There should be limits to what people do in the name of religion. Child abuse should not be allowed just becauase it is not PC to upset ethnic minorities. If an adult choses to be circumised for religious reasons with no pain relief then that is their decision.

The use of corporal punishment is heavily restricted in the UK. Infact there are many people think there should be a total ban on smacking. It is illogical not to campaign for a ban on the circumicising of little boys.

"I'm guessing men who have been circumcised need to use a bucket load of KY or similar for their own personal stimulation because they have no foreskin." -mine doesn´t.

would it not be quite painful without any kind of lube if they're going at it solo??

notconvincedaboutthis I would miss DH's foreskin too if he didn't have one!

Don't think anyone's entione dthis yet but ...

infant circumcision has long lasting effects on the babies.

They're more pain sensitive for months after (think about all the nerve endings in a foreskin and you won't be surprised that their systems respond to that kind of hit with a fundamental change in responsivity):
www.cirp.org/library/pain/taddio2/

Can't find the reference (would mean digging out old lecture notes) but there's also supposed to be temperamental differences for at least 6-12 months too.

As far as I'm concerned, that's enough evidence for me that we shouldn't do it.

I won't profess to know anything about circumcision, not being Jewish or male but I do know that you don't win any arguments on here over religion. Whatever you do in the name of religion is wrong. There really is no point trying.

If people followed their religions strictly then there would be no STDs. It is sex outside marriage that causes STDs NOT having a foreskin.

If people want sex outside marriage then its necessary to use condoms. Even men who have been circumcised can get STDs.

oh come on, I wouldnt label it as child abuse though. Both my boys are circumsised for religious reasons and I am not the sort of parent you would refer to SS!!!

I have two sons, and can't imagine taking it upon myself to modify their bodies for cosmetic/religious reasons. They came in to this world with a foreskin, and I have to believe that evolution made sure they had one for a good reason. DH is circumcised for medical purposes and it has never occurred to either of us that the boys must match I don't pretend to understand the religious reasons behind it, tbh I can't get past the act itself.

As a parent who has been referred to SS due to dropping my son (came back unfounded, accident) I am wondering what kind of parent mumofthreesweeties thinks is the sort of parent who gets referred to SS.

And what makes her think she isn't that sort.

Which has nothing to do with circumcision, I am well aware. The phrasing just got my back up. I admit that freely.

well (jewishly) religiously the onus is on the father, so the person who in religious terms who subjects his son to this had it done to himself as a baby.

BTW in my RL every single person i know circumcised their son as a baby.

But that still doesn´t make it right/acceptable, does it-it was done to me therefore I´ll do it to my son?

That´s how these things go on so long-no one questions it.

My son is circumsised as he was born with hyperspadia. (sp) He was done days before his 2nd birthday and it was so traumatic for me Dh and obviously especially my poor DS.

First the whole hospital thing for a child not used to it was a worry for him, the gas to get him to sleep was horrendous - i was holding/restraining him whilst he was being gassed and i felt like i was smothering him it was awful.

When he woke after the op he was terrified took hours for him to come around properly, then he was on really strong painkillers for a week, but was still in pain from the moment he came round for about a week.

I was heart broken for him, everytime he needed a wee he cried, and then after he screamed. He will be three in 2 months and still wont let anyone touch him in tht area, even around it. i truely worry he's going to be (mentally) scarred for life.

My poor baby.

And this is the humane way to do it, with medical professionals and being put to sleep and the area numbed, and a mega amount of painkillers.

How could anyone do this to a child without absolute medical reasons needs? you need locking up, you have put your paranoid delusion of whats right ahead of your childs welbeing how can you inflict such pain on your child - i couldnt do that to my worst enemy let alone my baby by choice! - what is wrong with you people. Do you tattoo them too and stick piercings all over them, well why not i spose its all the same isnt it, you are mutilating your sons for your own pleasure and thats so twisted.

Maybe a change in mindset is needed. Some religous groups advocate "spare the rod, spoilt the child" as an excuse for fundermentalist christinas to beat kids with sticks. Twenty years ago was considered parental choice if someone wanted to beat their kids with a bamboo cane. Thankfully we have moved on.

mumofthreesweeties, did you watch your sons being circumcised?

babydubseverywhere ditto on the trauma of hospital to the child

babydubseverywhere, I am sorry it wassuch a bad experience for you and your Ds.

The experience of my sons was totally different. They were both circumcised at the age of 6 for religious reasons. Both of them performed in a different way (a few years appart by different doctors). Ds1 was a bit scary because he had stiches but he healed really fast and did not need any pain killers after the first 24 hours (same dosage as I would have given him for a cold). Ds2 had no stiches, the technique used for him was called "plastibell" and he chatted about his holiday to the doctor while it was performed.I know that because I was there with him. Again, he did not need massive doses of pain killers afterwards. Both were performed under local anestetic.

babydubseverywhere: I am sorry it was so traumatic. Both my DSs had theirs done age 8 days old. Clearly he needed it for medical reasons - but I am not convinced that under a GA aged 2 is the humane way.

Done in the traditional jewish way by mohel without stitches. Both boys were fine after 2.5ml of calpol and back to their normal temperament when the bandage was taken off around 12 hours later, and it healed within a few days. DS1 now 4 can't remember anything of it.

DS1 had an operation on his ear aged 3 under GA. That was far more traumatic both in terms of being gassed, recovery etc.

"DS1 now 4 can't remember anything of it"

Of course, he can't remember anything of a procedure he had done at 8 days old! Doesn't matter how traumatic an event happens at 8 days old, no baby is going to remember it so not quite sure what your point is

They might not remember it, but they have a permanent reminder.

I have a friend who is a nurse/midwife who used to assist in circumcision procedures of very young babies. She says it was horrific, that the little boys would scream and spontaneously urinate and defecate as procedure was being performed. I wonder how those posters saying babies don't feel much pain know this - have they actually been present at a circumcision?

Booty, I have not been at the circumcision of a baby so do not know how if it is different but as I said in a previous post , I was present to Ds2's one and it was NOTHING like what you are discribing.

DS2 screamed as soon as his nappy was taken off, just like he did for all nappy changes aged one week. Also they like it to be done while the baby is a bit hungry, (so you don't feed for the 90 mins etc before - I guess so they can be easily comforted afterwards). Its very hard to tell therefore how much of the crying was due to his nappy being off, the baby being hungry etc.

I don't have any DSs (only DD's) but as DH is not circumcised I'm sure any future DS's wouldn't be, either.

I don't really agree for non-cultural reasons.

Do prefer the esthetics of a circumcised penis if I was being completely honest (and shallow) though.

My husband is circumcised-his choice as an adult.
We thought about having our son done, but obviously didn´t as it should be his decision.