Is NICE going too far?

[Sal321]

This BBC news story is about a suggestion by NICE (national institute for clinical excellence) that all pregnant women should be breath tested for smoking at their first MW appointment. I know I don't smoke, why should I be tested? I appreciate that I could refuse, but isn't this a bit of a weird recommendation?

these sort of things don't work.

They came out against drinking during pregnancy a couple of decades ago, and the result was moderate drinkers stopped, and the alcoholics kept on just the same - the levels of FAS are just the same.

You can't convert alcoholics/fag addicts by a test.

I was under the impression that NICE stood for National Institute for Clinical Excellence.

WTF has that got to do with brearth testing pregnant women or banning saturated fats.

Are NICE trying to justify their existance because the gov are looking for places to cut funding????
Surely not, that would be quite cynical!

No pregnant woman should be made to have a test without complete informed consent.

Add message | Report | Contact poster By weetabixwhiner Thu 24-Jun-10 10:49:58
"No, we can't be trusted, I saw a pregnant woman smoking like a trooper and drinking a large bottle of Lambrini and then lager at a BBQ not long ago. It's these women who need catching in the net."

And what do you do with them once you have caught them?

crossposted, I see

Also, as someone who worked specifically in this field, can i just say that testing for HIV is slightly different. Many many people do not know they have HIV, and HIV has a good chance of being PREVENTED from being passed from mother to foetus given early and careful treatment.

Testing for HIV has nothing to do with passing judgement on an individual.

Oh... and it protects health workers too. Win win really.

People know they shouldn't smoke while pregnant. Making them take a breath test is imo intrusive and more likely to put them off going to their first appointment than anything. I don't smoke and never have and frankly I would think twice about going that appointment. It's not like screening for HIV or syphilis which you might have without realising. It's just screening you for being a liar and/or weak-willed which is frankly offiensive. What are they suggesting doing with the information once they have it? Forcing people to undergo a stopping smoking programme?

I think that a midwife's nose (ANY non-smoker can smell a smoker the moment they walk in the room) and a lot of subtlety would and does go a lot further than this sledgehammer appraoch.

I got asked to blow into a tube, didn't query it. I had already told them I didn't smoke. They looked at the reading and said "zero". So I said "you can see I wasn't lying then?" They did look a bit embarrassed at that. I really can't be arsed with this ''walking incubator" attitude that some people have of pregnant women.

Midwives (and all other health professionals) are supposed to be very careful about gaining informed consent for all tests. Things like HIV are obviously very sensitive and a positive diagnosis could be devastating. Not just emotionally and medically but in terms of life insurance and all sorts of other factors.

In practice, normally they just do it without bothering to explain or ask for full consent. I'm sure this will be exactly the same. Which is why it is so stupid and likely to have the opposite effect to that intended - driving women away from support that could help them to stop.

Ah, but duchesse, you're assuming all midwives are non-smokers.

Can't believe that's the case, really.

Stressful job, midwifery.

NICE director does say in their press release "It will also alert non-smokers with high carbon monoxide levels to possible CO poisoning, which can be caused by a faulty boiler or car emissions.? but I strongly suspect that's an afterthought to try to mollify the likes of us.

Exactly! How do we know if our heating system is faulty.

Guidelines themselves are interesting reading.

You can and should have a carbon monoxide detector, weetabixwhiner, rather than getting pregnant every time you want to check whether your boiler is faulty.

"You can and should have a carbon monoxide detector, weetabixwhiner, rather than getting pregnant every time you want to check whether your boiler is faulty."

quote of the week

I'm in the 'why not? camp.
Why don't all of you stop getting your g-strings in a twist, sorry if I offended you vintage. There are lots of unknown factors leading to autism not always within our control. It was just a thought, and I am very anti-smoking. Both my parents smoked heavily as I grew up and my Dad died early due to smoking. I was born with health problems now resolved [I hope], and often think what if my mom hadn't smoked, would have I been ok.

Brilliant

Weetabix obviously that wasnt aimed at your last post. Sorry.

Oh yes it was!

I'm in the 'it's a waste of fucking time and what will you do after?' camp...

Weetabix, while it must be galling to know that you have health problems caused by your parents smoking, the sad fact is that they made a conscious decision to smoke. The dangers of smoking were known in those days and they still decided to carry on. That was their decision and only they are to blame. Even the cleverest tests could not stop them. The midwives will not have the power to physically stop someone from smoking- and it is difficult to see how this could be done without actual imprisonment.

I know it may not be PC to say so, but people are responsible for their own actions.

Perhaps thats why your logic centres seem only half formed.

I was born in the 70s and my mother did not know about the dangers of smoking while pregnant..she regrets it..she didn't breast-feed me either..but she told me about my birth and it was very traumatic...they were asking her about breast-feeding while she was delirious with pain and drugs ..she told them to leave her alone and she she was given an injection that affected her milk..

Ha, ha, bye you lot, take a valium, its time you know!

I think NICE is about saving the NHS money isn't it, which is why banning tran-fats is sort of in their remit.

FWIW I think the CO test is fine. Most people on mumsnet are well educated individuals. However, some people may be totally unaware that their exposure to passive smoking may be affecting their CO levels. And as someone has already mentioned CO levels in the home could be elevated withput actually killing you.

I was CO tested once to show some young people the difference between smoker and non-smoker. My reading was not zero- I had just cycled to ork along a busy main road.

IMO it shouldn't be labelled as testing for smokers though - more as checking the levels of carbon monoxide exposure, which could come from loads of sources.

Half term is it?