Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is NICE going too far?

430 replies

Sal321 · 24/06/2010 09:49

This BBC news story is about a suggestion by NICE (national institute for clinical excellence) that all pregnant women should be breath tested for smoking at their first MW appointment. I know I don't smoke, why should I be tested? I appreciate that I could refuse, but isn't this a bit of a weird recommendation?

OP posts:
Mumcentreplus · 24/06/2010 16:41

Why cant we just treat people like adults and give them the information?...no one is saying the programmes dont work...but a test especially at such a vunerable time in a woman life is coercion and I dont think the government or anyone should do that...it should be offered if a woman requests it or says she is a smoker...

swallowedAfly · 24/06/2010 16:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

porcamiseria · 24/06/2010 16:42

thanks and fair enough, everyone is entitled ot their opinion

ivykaty44 · 24/06/2010 16:43

The next thing will be to test children at primary school to see if they come from a household with smokers

GetDownYouWillFall · 24/06/2010 16:46

Really, swallowedAfly?

"On smoking several things happen. Firstly, there is a reduced supply of oxygen, due to the increase of nicotine and carbon monoxide in the mother's bloodstream. This means that there is less oxygen available to the baby, as the harmful substances replace it. The baby will begin to move slower after the mother has smoked a cigarette and the baby's heart will have to work faster, as it tries to breathe in more oxygen. Consequently, its breathing and movement will be altered. In other words it will suffer unnecessary stress.

As well as a reduced amount of oxygen, the nicotine constricts the blood vessels in the mother's side of the placenta, thus preventing the blood supply, oxygen and the necessary amount of nutrients and food from reaching the baby, which will result in the slow growth of the foetus.

As a result the foetus will not develop or grow as well as it should and this can lead to the birth of a low-weight baby and all the risks and complications that this could entail. A low-weight baby is more likely to be placed in intensive care once it has been born.

Not only this, once the mother has given birth, she will cut off the supply of nicotine to her child and shortly the baby will begin to suffer the effects of nicotine withdrawal."

swallowedAfly · 24/06/2010 16:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Francagoestohollywood · 24/06/2010 17:09

Yes, Swallowedafly, that's what I've been told by my over zealous obstetrician too (she said 5 though )

TheCoalitionNeedsYou · 24/06/2010 17:12

Mumcentreplus - Coercion is not necessarily a bad thing.

One of the critical changes we need to make to health care in this country is to move resources from treatment to prevention.

Mumcentreplus · 24/06/2010 17:17

coercion is a bad thing if you have half a brain..I dont want to be forced,tricked or threatened thanks..

ConstanceWearing · 24/06/2010 17:18

Where is it all leading to? Smokers already know the damage smoking does, and so does the government. This test seems a waste of resources, unless they are speculating now in order to accumulate later. They tell smokers again and again that they are damaging their health. Thus, when the NHS refuse to treat smokers at some later date everybody will say "serves you right". But after the smokers, it will be the cream cake eaters who are costing the NHS too much money, then the stress-sufferers. It really is a slippery slope, as someone said earlier. Human rights are human rights. This is fascism.

Sassybeast · 24/06/2010 17:18

No need for a test for that Ivykaty - children whose parents smoke inside stink of smoke anyway - it's not hard to identify them.

susiey · 24/06/2010 17:27

I am not a smoker and have never smoked in my life and my partner does not smoke.
I am currently pregnant and if my midwife asks me to breath into a tube to 'test' me to see if I'm lying I will refuse.
Its insulting to think they are basically testing people to see if they are lying
wonder what they will write in my notes then?

playthedayaway · 24/06/2010 17:29

I want to know what will happen to those who do test positive? Will they be given the same info available to all anyway and that's it? Or will they be referred to another service for help quitting? I don't understand, if there's nothing they can enforce then why the need? I'll do the test because at the end of the day I've nothing to hide and if I did smoke I would want the help stopping but surely if you felt that way they would just ask you and you would tell the truth? And if you lie then you must feel guilty about the possible consequences?

Am I making any sense here? Lolx

BigWeeHag · 24/06/2010 17:37

This thread has made me remember the MW who came out to visit us when DD was 3 days old. She had a fag in her car (I saw her out the window as I was twitching my lace curtains ) then came in and started examining/ touching/ breathing on my baby without so much as rinsing her hands, let alone taking off her stinking jacket. Yuck.

Pregnant women are still private citizens, and have as much right to smoke as anyone else. They may be making a bad choice, but that is allowed too.

ProfessorLaytonIsMyLoveSlave · 24/06/2010 17:52

playthedayaway -- the test is just one (fairly small) part of the new guidelines around stopping smoking in pregnancy. If you follow the link earlier on the thread you can read the whole thing yourself, should you so desire.

lilyliz · 24/06/2010 17:58

whre are you to have a hospital with a smoking room all sokers round here have to stand outside the hospital grounds.While they are at it lets test for alcohol and cholesterol.

choufleur · 24/06/2010 18:04

It's a waste of time. I would refuse. like I refused Anti-D after a bleed because DH is also O neg and there is absolutely no need.

The midwife really went on at me to have it to cover their backs as apparently some women might lie if they had had an affair. I was bloody certain that i hadn't slept with someone else so didn't need an injection. Same way that I would know that I hadn't smoked.

playthedayaway · 24/06/2010 18:08

Thanks Professer but I'm still not getting it, lol. How will a test make any difference to being asked the question? Those who want to quit will admit to it and get help and those who don't will lie and refuse the test anyway. Can't see anyone being a winner in this situation which is a shame.

Jaquelinehyde · 24/06/2010 18:08

Oooh yes alcohol will be next, after all they need to know if you are staying within the safe amount.

If you can lie about smoking, then you can lie about how much you are drinking surely?

Bloody madness, what a waste of time.

lilyliz · 24/06/2010 18:11

maybe goverment will stop the haelthy living grant,oh forgot stopped that in budget.

choufleur · 24/06/2010 18:18

waste of time anyway lilybiz. most people didn't seem to spend it on food and got it so late in their pregnancy that I can't see how it really helped anyway

lilyliz · 24/06/2010 18:19

the mv are told to tell us all the information about smoking during pregnancy, the are just doing their job. try having the fattest nurse you ever seen lecturing you about diet and healthy eating,really should have been a job for a slim nurse!(WINK)

ProfessorLaytonIsMyLoveSlave · 24/06/2010 18:23

But you said "I want to know what will happen to those who do test positive? Will they be given the same info available to all anyway and that's it? Or will they be referred to another service for help quitting?"

Guidance says:
Refer all women who smoke, or have stopped smoking within the last 2
weeks, to NHS Stop Smoking Services. Also refer those with a CO reading
of 7 ppm or above. (Note: light or infrequent smokers should also be
referred, even if they register a lower reading ? for example, 3 ppm.) If they
have a high CO reading (more than 10 ppm) but say they do not smoke,
advise them about possible CO poisoning and ask them to call the free
Health and Safety Executive gas safety advice line on: 0800 300 363.
? Use local arrangements to make the appointment and, in case they want to
talk to someone over the phone in the meantime, give the NHS Pregnancy
Smoking Helpline number: 0800 1699 169. Also provide the local helpline
number where one is available.
? If her partner or others in the household smoke, suggest they contact NHS
Stop Smoking Services. If no one smokes, give positive feedback.
? At the next appointment, check if the woman took up her referral. If not, ask
if she is interested in stopping smoking and offer another referral to the
service.
? If she accepts the referral, use local arrangements to make the
appointment and give the NHS Pregnancy Smoking Helpline number: 0800
1699 169. Also provide the local helpline number where one is available.
? If she declines the referral, accept the answer in an impartial manner,
leave the offer of help open. Also highlight the flexible support that many
NHS Stop Smoking Services offer pregnant women (for example, some
offer home visits).
Page 9 of 58
support. (Note: a specialist adviser needs to offer this support to minimise
the risk of her opting out.)
? Refer all women who smoke, or have stopped smoking within the last 2
weeks, to NHS Stop Smoking Services. Also refer those with a CO reading
of 7 ppm or above. (Note: light or infrequent smokers should also be
referred, even if they register a lower reading ? for example, 3 ppm.) If they
have a high CO reading (more than 10 ppm) but say they do not smoke,
advise them about possible CO poisoning and ask them to call the free
Health and Safety Executive gas safety advice line on: 0800 300 363.
? Use local arrangements to make the appointment and, in case they want to
talk to someone over the phone in the meantime, give the NHS Pregnancy
Smoking Helpline number: 0800 1699 169. Also provide the local helpline
number where one is available.
? If her partner or others in the household smoke, suggest they contact NHS
Stop Smoking Services. If no one smokes, give positive feedback.
? At the next appointment, check if the woman took up her referral. If not, ask
if she is interested in stopping smoking and offer another referral to the
service.
? If she accepts the referral, use local arrangements to make the
appointment and give the NHS Pregnancy Smoking Helpline number: 0800
1699 169. Also provide the local helpline number where one is available.
? If she declines the referral, accept the answer in an impartial manner,
leave the offer of help open. Also highlight the flexible support that many
NHS Stop Smoking Services offer pregnant women (for example, some
offer home visits).
? If the referral was taken up, provide feedback. Review at subsequent
appointments, as appropriate.
? Where appropriate, for each of the stages above record smoking status,
CO level, whether a referral is accepted or declined and any feedback
given. This should be recorded in the woman?s hand-held record. If a
hand-held record is not available locally, use local protocols to record this
information.

and then there's another couple of sections on what the NHS Stop Smoking service does.

Doesn't answer the question of what good the test specifically does, but does answer the question of what happens if you test positive.

TheCrackFox · 24/06/2010 18:29

Thy can test midwives and doctors first - don't want any carbon monoxide fumes around newborns.

alle01 · 24/06/2010 18:30

i've read something really fuuny:

your midwife is unlikely to be jgedmenal

first day at home after a week in hospital giving birth and having complications, she writes in my notes that the carpet is not clean up to her standards and that hygiene to my stitches is not sufficient (she didn't agree with advise from the hospital, is not i didn't wash), clearly very caring, give this woman a breathilizer and a license to use it

Swipe left for the next trending thread