to think that being poor is not what it used to be?

[oldenglishspangles]

When I was a child being poor meant
no electricity/gas/water - delete as applicable depending on whether money ran out.
We ate left overs.
No colour tv even though everyone else had it. We had a remote control though - us children!
We didnt have kettle a pan does the same job.
cardboard insoles, to cover holes in shoes holes in shoes
alimited number of non branded, hand me down clothes
Walking (not bus or cars)
No holidays
only a few toys - (a very limited budget which as children we understood and tried to get as mmuch as possible with)

I am lucky and have plenty of resources. Don't want for nothing. However, I can't stop acting how I was brought up with regard to food wastage, recycling of clothing to make new or to give to others, saving jars to store stuff in etc.

I used to live somewhere very posh and I would sometimes take the nice things the posh neigbours put out with their bins - small furniture / accessories. Just take it home and clean it. Thats a bit embarrassing and extreme, right?!

We were very poor for a bit in the 80's - which as Riven mentioned was not a nice time to be poor. My Mum always boils it down to the fact that she was so poor she could not afford clothes pegs - it was literally food or pegs. I think because clothes and household stuff are so cheap now people don't need to make their childrens clothes or reuse food packaging. Its a different kind of poor nowadays. I think I have a rose-tinted view of my childhood poverty of home grown veg and unpicking jumpers to knit new ones. It still must have been shit for my Mum.

I am concerned that I will be a mean mummy because I really can't get my head round the luxuries kids expect now. How do you justify not giving them all this crap when they know you can afford it? Sorry, thats a bit off topic.

I dont think anyone here is blaming every poor for being poor.

REL make them earn them. The things we work for we generally value more.

I would like to offer another perspective.

My parents had my brother and I in the early 70s. Only my Dad worked - my mum was a SAHM. My Dad left school when he was about 15 and worked as a salesman when we were young - he wouldn't have earned that much. But my mum and Dad still afforded to bring up 2 children - we had a car, they had a mortgage on a 3 bedroom newbuild house....They obviously didn't have mobiles, Wiis, foreign holidays etc etc because those things just weren't there or readily available or expected.

But I actually think life was easier then - there was less pressure to have "things", property was more affordable, people lived more simply and therefore more cheaply.

I have just gone through my bank statement for June - I think I live quite frugally - but every entry is Morrisons, Asda, Shell Petrol, Direct Debit for A, B, and C.... I earn a decent enough income but every penny is accounted for. It's crap...

people definitely expect more these days.

they expect to be able to change their decor, including all the furniture and ornaments, on a whim, because thats what the TV tells you you should do,on a regular basis

like you should upgrade your mobile phone/hoover/TV - JUST BECAUSE there is a newer, cleverer model, or theres a great deal available

like you should buy THIS YEARS fshion of winter coat/boots, not just wear the same for years

when I was young if it was not broke it did not get replaced and if you wanted something you saved up for it.

I am amazed that some of DS little friends think we are "poor" because we dont have some of the things they have - no Wii, DS, only one very small very old TV in the house etc - but all these are lifestyle choices.

It bugs me when people moan about the price of school trips, school lunches, fresh food etc - when you know they have a house full of the latest electronic gadgets and have not taught their kids the value of money

Rude English Lady. I can relate to your comment about clothes pegs. Every time I hang washing out, I gloat inwardly, because I have got plenty of pegs and don't have to put two or three socks per peg.

I would argue that it is even harder to be poor with children now, as the pressure to have the latest stuff, and the pressure from schools to pay for extras is so relentless. DS was almost in tears last night as the others have moved on to a different set of football cards at school. We are not that hard-up, I'm just mean, but eventually relented and let him "spend his own money", out of his moneybox.

But I actually think life was easier then - there was less pressure to have "things", property was more affordable, people lived more simply and therefore more cheaply.

in effect though, property was not more affordable - fewer people were homeowners (my folks were given a flat 'no' on mortgages and borrowed from my dads parents...at a rate of 8%...)....and you can still live simply if you wish! no-one forces that broadband connection on you...good quality 'things' can be got cheaply second hand (and even for free!) ...

i don't imagine for a second that my life as a (technically poor) householder is harder than my parents (or my Mums parents...) was when we were little.

TH. I think life was more simpler rather than easier. There was pressue to have things, but credit available was not as accessible. Also I think that many of Parents of children born around and / or immediately post war were of the make do and mend rationing mentality. Dont forget rationing didnt end until around 1954 (but i stand to be corrected) - so life was tough for a long time. Those values they often instilled in their own children. Hence my mother being able to say 'No we cant afford it' and sticking to it.

"no-one forces that broadband connection on you...good quality 'things' can be got cheaply second hand (and even for free!) ..."

ahh yes - but in general these days if you want something free or cheap you need a computer to access freecycle/ebay/etc.

PLus I actually save more a year by using the computer to compare prices, pay online, get paperless billing, get stuff off freecycle,etc etc than my broadband costs each year

The genuinely poorest people are unlikely to be able to answer this question here, as they will not have a computer or internet access.

Thanks for the advice re. children earning the fancy things OES. Have now got mental image of small boy sitting for hours with his arms outstretched whilst I wind recycled wool round them, weeding round vegetables and then carrying bottles down to the shop to claim the deposit. Thats what we had to do back in the day! Seriously though, what modern 'earning' factors do you use?

Choccy - thats just like my Mum, she loves now having loads of lovely plastic pegs and well-secured washing!!

Cathycat, because of the usefulness that TAC has just pointed out, people on a low income, with children aged between 6 and 15 can claim a grant for a free PC and help towards the cost of setting up BB.

Another good thing imo. It means that children will have access to all the same resources as their peers. Plus, it can help the parent save money and provide them with much needed support in some cases.

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I think they do for the first year. I don't know much about it. We aren't entitled to it, I just looked into it on behalf of a friend, so all I did is print out info sheets for her.

yes they do for the first year.

I would be worse off if I didn't have internet access

www.direct.gov.uk/en/Nl1/Newsroom/DG_183990 yep, it's for the first year they pay.

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Computers are all in DD1's school and she is in P1.

I'm so glad they are seen as essential here now and they truly help a good many with learning disabilities like her extend their potential and maximise their communication potential.

I agree with BigFatSepticToe (nice!): you hear people moaning about school trips etc, and yet their amount of consumer goods is 50 feet tall.

And I'm not sure which charity it is, but every year it cites the markers of child poverty. They are utterly ridiculous! Things like "not having a new bike every year" is indicative of being deprived. Yeah, right.

It also makes me when you hear people complain about clothing their dcs. I was reading something where a woman was saying her son needed new trainers and that would be £100. NOT IT WOULD NOT!!!! Ds's trainers come from Shoe Zone and I have never paid more than £5.

This branded goods obsession is pernicious and the sooner it passes, the better.

'Ds's trainers come from Shoe Zone and I have never paid more than £5.'

I shop in Shoe Zone and, even in a shithole like Greenock, the trainers in there cost more than £5.

Sales, expact, sales.

Expat - sorry!