to think that people who self-harm deserve better treatment by hospitals?

[MilkChocolateTeapot]

Last week, I had an extremely messy, bloody and careless accident whilst cooking, and posted about my fears that, because of my "history" of self-harm, the medical servives would regard or treat my injury as self-inflicted.

They haven't. Not at all. I've been back to the hospital almost every day and seen different staff each time and each time have been treated with an almost embarrassing amount of gentleness, kindness and respect.

When I was self-harming, I would be treated brusquely, impatiently, dismissively and sometimes very rudely.

So, who deserves more respect - a tired and careless 30 year old woman with a loving and supportive family, or a terrified and distraught homeless teenager who is alone in the world?

The latter, surely.

Maize it is good to hear that your were treated with respect, and that the kidneess made it better.

Agree with what you say.

YANBU at all.

It shouldn't be a case of who deserves help most. All people should get help equally.

It should be the seriousness of the injury that determines the help, not the cause.

My last sentence is a bit muddled sorry.

I just mean some people who present with self harm can be very very challenging and sometimes that can re-enforce negative stereotypes about self harm. And it can be difficult to nurse those people. Doesn't mean they should not be treated well but I understand the challenge that self harmers present to health care staff.

So... you're working with the ones who have the issues, as I said? Whatever - I never said those issues don't exist, just that not EVERYONE who ends up in A and E with alcohol poisoning have these issues or end up in A and E all the time.

I think you explained it well the first time, but even more clearly the second.

DH put his hand in a lawnmower, amde a right mess and needed a lot of treatment. It was a staggeringly stupid thing to do. Not even an accident really - he intentionally put his hand in there. He thought he would get away with it. He didn't. Comparing him favourably to a troubled teenager (or adult) who self harms is ridiculous, and he would certainly agree.

Maize I know exactly what you mean, some kids I work with do it and the wounds are just surface wounds and they wear them a bit like a badge - there is still a reason those kids are looking for that type of attention though and sometimes it is deep seated emotional problems just as bad as the kids who self harm very deeply and go to great lengths to hide it.

secunda you are talking out of your arse.

• and I feel qualified to say that.

YANBU. I've been really shocked by the attitudes of dr friends to self-harmers and other people with serious mental health problems that "cause work" for the NHS.

I think that part of the trouble is that UK drs have pretty good clinical training and tend to regard themselves as highly educated, whereas actually they've studied nothing except pure science since the age of 16 and haven't learnt much critical thinking, nor much about how society works.

It's nice that you feel qualified, ladyanonymous. I don't know why you're particularly getting at me, since I basically agree that everyone in A and E should be treated equally and with respect, however their injury occured

TheFallenMadonna - I don't really understand your post Should people who self harm have different treatment (in medical terms) to those who present accidentally?

I think attending A&E is a good thing in many ways - better to get wounds sorted than let them stay open and unhealed.

For me it did serve a purpose, I certainly had to do enough to warrant medical attention. Something about showing myself and others just how terrible I was feeling - just how much I was punishing myself. I certainly needed to go to A&E with what I was doing but there was a lot there psychologically that at the time I was unable to tap into. With hindsite the staff obviously got this and were just fabulous with me.

I have since worked with them and its been fine and no grudges held or anything!

YANBU. More training is needed for health professionals.

More training is needed and GPs need to be made to do more training.

secunda every kid who ends up in A&E through drugs or alcohol who lives in the area I cover gets referred to my service - so I do know what I am talking about and I have 6 years experience - I was a little that you seemed to have a rather unimformed opinion, and made a sweeping generalizarion with nothing to back it up.

I did not mean any offence though and apologise.

YANBU

In my opinion, there is absolutely no difference at all between injuries from cutting, OD of paracetamol/alcohol etc that gets labeled 'deliberate self harm' and the other 'self inflicted' complaints such as OD from recreational drugs/heroin/alcohol, and chronic illnesses brought on by a life time of self harm due to over eating, under exercising, smoking and drinking too much. Ditto accidents that happen when people are drunk and/or careless or just plain unlucky.

No one arrives in A&E for fun. Everyone there is in distress of some sort and deserves to be treated with compassion, respect and dignity.

It is a scandal that medical training in the UK does not include more psychiatry/psychology and that the psychiatric components of illness are not afforded more attention and research.

I am pleased about the change in the 4 hour wait targets in A&E, it means that there will be more time for medical and nursing staff to engage with patients with more complex issue, mental health related and other.

Agree that medical degrees should definitely have more of a mental health component. My DP is a doctor and he really doesn't understand mental health issues at all, and his friends seem to be similar. He only really gets it when it's very extreme, e.g. you have to top yourself or try to 'prove' you're depressed. Anything else and you're just whinging. Phobia? You're just being hysterical. He is a very rational bod (and he is a nice person, honest) and many mental health problems just don't make sense to him, but he also admits he has barely been trained in it at all.

Surely is about basic interpersonal skills training as well as awareness of mental illness, not that self harm is a mental illness in itself (more often a maladaptive response to adverse feelings or circumstances?) but obviously it often goes hand in hand with serious emotional or mental distress.

Y are so obviously NBU. Having said that, have had nothing but warm, caring treatment for my daughter from A&E staff when she had self harmed. The most negative experience we ever had was from a member of the psychiatric crisis resolution team when I called, during a real emergency, and they said 'sounds like a bit of anxiety, run her a bath and make her a sweet milky drink'. She was caught in the process of trying to hang herself. Went to a&e where staff there made the decision to section her. She's still in hospital over two months later.

No! Not at all. Sorry to be oblique. I was responding to the earlier posts suggesting that (for example) "idiot" 18 yos should be treated differently to toddlers. And distinguishing between "actual" accidents and self harm. I was simply disagreeing with that distinction.

I have been treated both fantastically and terribly by A&E staff, and by ambulance staff. I will forever remember the lovely paramedic who was taking my medical history on the way to hospital after a suicide attempt; I listed my medical problems and answered his other questions, and he just looked me in the eye and said, "I can totally understand why you've done this", squeezed my hand and told me it would be okay, even though it didn't feel like it. He was lovely. Another time when I was kept in over night for observations, a nurse sat up chatting with me and let me organise the desk draws because I needed something to do with my hands.

On the other side of the coin, I had a psychotic episode whilst I was staying (I hadn't taken my meds and they didn't have them in the pharmacy ). I was really not well. One of the other patients complained that I was shouting (I remember thinking someone was under my bed with a knife, though was very out of it) and a nurse came to check on me. He said something along the lines of, "Oh let the stupid cow just scream out, she'll fall asleep eventually. Crazy woman shouldn't even be here...". He then proceeded to shake me, which of course, made me freak out even more. Then he stood at the end of my bed and asked if someone else could come deal with "this demented bitch", and asked me if I would like a razor to help with my cuts as it would shut me up quicker Utter, utter prick. I wish I'd reported him at the time.

As has been said, it really varies from time to time. No one should be treated differently because of the reason they are in there.

MitchyInge I am so sorry to hear about your daughter, I hope she is on the mend. That must have been so horrible for you all x

How can a nurse, how could anyone, say such things?to anyone but especially someone so distressed

I have really poor impulse control and would have punched him whether he was speaking to me (assuming I was up to it which unfortunately often am when unwell ) someone I cared about or a total random - well worth a criminal record

YANBU YANBU YANBU!!!

I am a CAMHS therapist and I attend A+E/paeds ward acouple of times a month to assess young people who've self harmed and often follow them up as out-patients. I've written my masters dissertation on this very issue and also done a lot of work around educating A+E staff about it.

I'm pleased to hear some of you have been treated with kindness and respect, I really do try to emphasize this with the emergency staff.

I'm really sorry and for the negative experiences too. looks like me and my colleagues have a lot more work to do.