To expect to be paid for my time, as any other non-family employee would, I have no doubt, be paid!

[abilicious]

Hi,
I'm new on mumsnet, and I work as an after school nanny and summer nanny and do babysitting. I desperately hope that the following does not develop into a rant, and instead leads to some constructive advice which I'm sure you lovely mumsnetters will provide me with, so thanks!

I started babysitting for some family members when I was fifteen. The children are now lovely B12, pleasure-to-be-around G11 and G8, and I'm a few years older and marginally wiser. When I started I was paid £5 an hour for my time - more than generous at 15, and tbh fabulous as because they were family I felt comfortable helping myself to the contents of their fridge!

Now I have years more experience as well as First Aid qualifications, CRB and written references. I'm still paid £5 an hour which is fair enough (although everyone else I babysit for pays me upwards of £7) because they have an expectation and I don't want to rock the boat.

What's annoying me is this: I arrive, pretty much weekly at the moment, mid-afternoon, and spend the next 5 hours supervising homework, cooking dinner, chatting to the littlest one during bath time, faking being amused by stuff I really don't care about, arguing about an already too late bedtime and running up and down the stairs. Last week I did this for 5 hours 45 minutes and received 25 pounds, which I know technically is fair game.

I can't help feeling that a) they would not employ someone who could handle their children like I can, and who has the experience that I do, for £5 an hour and b) they would not dare to be so stingy with someone who wasn't a family member.

So this has descended into major rant, but it's really getting on my nerves. So mumsnetters, AIBU and how would you broach the subject next time I babysit and I feel they have underpaid me - which is tomorrow!

Thanks for getting to the end of this if you have
Abilicious

I can only think that you might say to them that you have another family offering you a position which woul;d conflict with your own family's days, and that they've offered you £X. Now of course, you don't want to give up looking after the family's DC, but you really need the extra money as you're looking at buying a car/house/new kitchen whatever is appropriate and believable. Then leave them to think it over.

PS, for heaven's sake, whatever you do, don't feel guilty. You're doing far much more than mere babysitting for that £5 per hour!

I would suggest telling them that you have other clients now paying the going rate who you need to make time for and say that you are upping your rates to £7. Be business-like and unemotionl, and be prepared to call their bluff and walk away if they won't pay it.

Not unreasonable at all - i pay a 16yo £5 if the kids are asleep but more like £7 if she has to deal with them awake. i pay an (older) afterschool nanny £8ph for school collection, cooking, homework help etc. I think these rates are pretty normal, certainly in the SE.

I would simply say, i'm afraid i'm putting my rates up! The going rate for my time is now £7 (or whatever you think) an hour. Good luck!

Thank you all for your help so far To add to the complications, two other members of this little clique of the family have recently given birth. Not only do I adore babies with all my heart but I'm the obvious choice for babysitting as I don't live too far away and I know them and I've been babysitting for this family for so long.

So I suppose I need to find the happy medium between being firm but not rude - I don't want everyone to start paying me £5 but I don't want to be known as the rude-cousin-who-definitely shouldn't-babysit forever and ever!

Thanks again

The new babes detail suggests that this is all the more reason for you to state what rate of pay you expect now, before you do land up in that awkward situation.

Good luck, it really sounds like you're worth your weight in gold. Wish you were my cousin!

£5 an hour isn't even minimum wage, so YANBU! I doubt they're actively trying to take advantage of you, but I think you do need to say something to them.

agree with others here

explain that you have better paid offers for your time and that unfortunately you need to give notice

also 5 hours 45 mins for 25 quid, what about the last hour???

Agree with everyone else, this was far more than babysitting for £5 per hour!

I wouldn't be happy getting £5 an hour for sitting in someone elses house watching telly for a couple of hour while their kids are asleep, let alone having to entertain, bath & feed them too!

I would definitely take the bull by the horns now, and mention that you will be needing to increase your rates as of 1st July/August etc, so it gives them time to process it, and you'll soon know whether they're happy to pay your new rate if they book you or not

porcamiseria that's exactly what I thought! I think they'd have paid £30 if I wasn't family.

I sort of think I'd feel to hand over that amount of money in that moment where they knew I knew that they were being cheeky.

I just think they'll either be angry with me, or it'll be really awkward and they won't ask me to do it again, or they'll point blank refuse to pay me more and then I'll have to avoid them forever more at family events.

Ah the politics of family

Who needs who more here op?

At the end of the day, you can & do get work from people who pay you more than this.

Are they going to find someone they trust who will look after their kids to the point of cooking, bathing etc, all for £5 an hour??? Methinks not!!

Trust me, they'll pay you the extra few quid. And if they don't, someone else will!!

I think you just have to be calm and matter-of-fact about it and say that you're having to rethink your finances, and that since you normally get £7 an hour you're going to have to ask them for that too. What you are doing is far more than babysitting, you are not a teenager sitting round their house doing nothing much to get a bit of pocket money, you are doing fullscale childcare for less than minimum wage.

If they get funny about it, point that out to them!

They're paying you for a service, and they are paying you below the minimum wage.

Are you paying tax and NI on these earnings?

In your position, I'd be giving them a month's notice that your rate has gone up, it's now your profession.

hairytriangle I don't pay tax or NI on the earnings because they pay me in cash as it is technically ad hoc babysitting. And it's not my profession as I'm still a student, I just babysit and nanny after school (for a different family) with whom I have a contract etc.

I'm babysitting later today, I think I'll definitely say something if they hand over less than £5 an hour. I'm finally getting round to my driving test in July so I think I will say that as soon as I'm driving I will be upping my rates, which gives them a proper reason and some notice.

I guess that as a result of the fact that a) They pay me cash and b) they drop me home they think they can pay me less.

if you havent asked/told your family you want more then how can they know?

you havnt said your age but im assuming late teenager so under 20

for what you do, yes is actually over min wage (unless you are over 22)

yes you run about etc with the children but you are still earning a good wage

yes if you can get more with other familys then mention that and say that you are upping your rates next month giving 4 weeks notice of it and up to them what they do

new born baby exp is vital if you want to be a nanny so part of me says stay there and get 6mths experience

but regardless of what you earn, if you work 6hrs then get paid for 6hrs and says to them if they pay you less

And for babysitting, it is completely reasonable to ask the family to either get you home or pay for a taxi plus pay you £7 per hour for actually babysitting.

I agree with everyone else - just say from 1st July you will be doing the flat rate of £7 and then they can take it or leave it. If they don't have you, they will have to pay whoever they do have the same, so they may as well have you!

oh and say half hours to be paid accordingly, so 5 hrs 45 mins would be paid as 6 hours. 5 hours 20 mins would be paid as 5.5 hours.

You could always say it's £5 an hour for the first child then another £2.50 for each additional child

They ARE taking advantage of you, but you're also taking advantage of the fact that they're relatives by not paying tax on your earnings.
Its easy with relatives because they pay you cash in hand and you know they won't 'shop' you.
Its not up to you to decide whether you pay tax or not, its up to the tax office.
I manage employees that are students and all of them pay tax.

I'm not saying that every baby-sitter should go to the hassle of registering self-employed. Just that if you want to compare your rates to professional childminders, you also have to compare your obligations.

Hey again mumsnetters! Thanks for continued advice throughout the day. Currently babysitting for aforementioned family, finally have gotten all off to sleep!

funkycherry it's a good point but I was under the impression that tax doesn't have to be paid if under a certain amount of money is paid per year?

blondes this is tbh also a good point, I know I live in an area where the mummies and daddies are happy to pay more so I think I'm just used to that!

pranma how fabulous - a tenner and hour. Once I pull myself together I may just have to do that haha

Thank you all!!

I'd also remember to point out that it's the first time in xx years that you have put up your rates for them, that your other clients have paid more always/for a long time but that it is getting to the point where, much as you'd love to do it, you just can't at that rate.

Could you bear to charge them something less than you charge your normal clients so that you can say to them that they are still getting 'family' rates - even if it is just 50p or 25p an hour less.

Also might be worth asking them when they last had a payrise or how many pay-rises they have had since you started working for them if they grimble.

Or pointing out that, if you had upped your rate annually with the rate of inflation as most people do then your rates would currently be £xx/hour (obviously you'll need to do a little sum here!) and that that is the going rate in the neighbourhood so they are getting a great deal still.

Basically, get any sort of figure you can get hold of to support your new figure in case they want to argue.

Do you have any other nanny friends that you can put them in touch with if they don't want to use you again - obviously they will all be more expensive than you at family rates

Finally, if you are worried about how it will go down within the family, can you talk to your mum (or other family members on your side) initially about it so that she (and/or they) is prepared if it gets back to them through the family so she can say how wonderful you are for holding out at such a cheap rate for so long as they are family. Or to broach it with their mum/etc if you get on well with them to get their 'advice' - in reality, getting them on your side!

And get it sorted now so that if other family members want to you to do babysitting for new babies then the rate is already up to date and you don't have to worry about upping it as soon as you start (if they are first borns chances are they will be blissfully deluded about cost of childcare)

Oh and remember to re-emphasise the rate is for hour or part there-of! And stop calling it babysitting and start calling it child care or child minding or whatever. Even if you want to differentiate between childcare and babysitting in your rates (ie cheaper in the evening when kids are in bed) to help re-inforce message that you are no longer the school kid cousin that is doing a bit of babysitting for extra pocket money!

The amount you claim to be working is likely to be liable for tax. But, of you're a student you don't pay tax.

But this isn't for you to 'work out', you still need to declare your earnings and let the tax office sort it out.

And you need to pay NI.

The amount you claim to be working is likely to be liable for tax. But, of you're a student you don't pay tax.

But this isn't for you to 'work out', you still need to declare your earnings and let the tax office sort it out.

And you need to pay NI.

Mmm. Agree you need to increase the rate, but I hope you handle it nicely with the family in question.

You said 'they would not dare to be so stingy..' etc, but they are part of the reason that you actually have years of experience. And you say they were more than generous when you were 15, so I don't quite get where your attitude's coming from.