Opinions on a dangerous dog?

[Lauries]

Hello all,

just wanted to see what other mothers opinions are on the following situation:

When walking up my street to a summer fete with my mother and my little one (16 months)a neighbour was gardening with his two springer spaniels.

As we walked I thought at the time the dogs were staring at us a little too intently...

As we approached the house the two dogs started barking and ran down towards us barking constantly, the owner did nothing. My mother is terrified of dogs and stood there frozen screaming.

The dog on the left just stared at us barking but the one on the right stared straight at my son and growled. A really deep belly growl. The dog was really stiff, barking and growling, inching closer to the buggy. With all the noise, the owner tried to call the dogs back whilst saying oh don't worry they won't hurt you! He called at least three times before they ran back. Do friendly dogs growl and snarl at babies?!?!

I had visions of jumping infront of the buggy, stamping on this dogs head and crawling home with half an arm!!

After talking to mother, she said these dogs have jumped on her and my aunt before!

I think these dogs are dangerously out of control no? I strongly suspect that despite the owners assurances the one dog was actually going to take a bite out of my son..

What do I do? Should I report this guy? I think these dogs are going to bite someone at some point...

obviously you saw it, I didn't - and you may well be right - but in any case the point is that whatever its intent it shouldn't be running at people barking and growling like that.

I didn;t notice your typo...woodhouse/whitehouse - think they were both quite similar weren't they?

I wouldn't speak to the owner first - no matter how nicely you approach him it could escalate into an argument. I would report outright - nobody is going to go straight over and impound his dogs, rather someone official will have a word with him which may be all that he needs to take his responsibilities a bit more seriously

I am another profound disliker of Cesar Milan's techniques and would strongly advise against attempting to become any sort of whisperer at dogs. I do know a bit about dogs and I know dangerous bollocks when I see it.

I'm concerned that these springers are so robustly defending territory beyond their garden. Not acceptable regardless of whether the result of this territoriality is an actual attack or just growling and swearing. I doubt you'll get a reasoned response from the owner - anyone who allows that sort of behaviour on the public highway is unlikely to have a positive or productive talk about the problem. So make a report to your local Dog Warden. I'm sure you won't be the only people worried by the behaviour of these spaniels.

'It's not the public's responsibility to go out and learn about dogs just so that they feel safe walking down the street come on really?'

no, but it is reality so it would empower the OP to do so

hi hatwoman, i knew someone would come on and say that. fwiw, i know his techniques are controversial, particularly 'flooding'. but some of what he says makes absolute sense. that they are dogs. that owners need to handle them properly. and that we need to think like dogs when we handle them, not humans.

what you are saying is the same as 'oh, gillian mackeith hasn't got any qualifications.' no but she gets results and changes lives. for the better. imo, cesar milan is the don of dog psychology.

'I know dangerous bollocks when I see it.'

It isn't dangerous bollocks. He has rescued lots of dogs that other agencies were going to put down. Because they are looked after by a man who knows how to handle them properly, they have turned from neglected, insecure, aggressive creatures into the most beautiful animals ever.

and incidentally, i am talking about defense, not attack. if these dogs do attack the OP, it would help to have some techniques to effectively difuse the situation.

defence

RubyBuckelberry, I am afraid I agree with GloriaSmut, Cesar Millan's methods are downright dangerous. Also, they are not without 'side effects' for the dog, or, in many cases, the owners. His methods are of such concern, in fact, that many animal welfare and behavioural/training organisations recently decided to speak out:

www.dogwelfarecampaign.org/press-statement.php

That aside, I doubt the dogs in question are dangerous, if they had intended to do damage, they would have done so. However,that is not to say their behaviour wasn't at the very least antisocial and upsetting to passers by. I would probably have a friendly word with the owner in the first instance and if they aren't co-operative then I don't see that you have any choice but to take it further with the dog warden/local council. Quite a large proportion of dog owners are genuinely oblivious to how their dogs should behave or simple 'doggy ettiquette' and it is likely this person is genuinely unaware that their dogs are being a nuisance.

wow, that is heavy! not very specific though concerning the techniques and hard evidence that it causes problems for the dogs or the owners. if you watch the man in action, you will see what happens to the dogs. he has their best interests at heart and visibly achieves what he sets out to: to make the dog lead a happy and fulfilled life. he puts it in terms of what the dogs need to thrive, not behave. big difference.

i shall now read the more specific links .

its flawed in places

i love the reference to spiders and flooding - subjecting a dog to experience fear up close - as in fear of skasteboards, is tantamount to someone being forced to sit next to a spider 'by pulling you up to a spider by the neck-tie so that it was choking you' er, cesar milan does not do that. he is extremely firm with some extremely big, strong, powerful and pissed off dogs, but he is so far from choking, or even trying to choke them!

he doesn't like choke chains

he doesn't believe in punishment, he believes in dog rehabilitation

he is not aggressive, he is assertive

i could probably go on

You can go on as much as you like, but what Cesar does and what he says he does are two totally, totally different things.

I have seen CM use choke chains, I have seen him use prong collars and I have even seen him use electric shock collars, (something now illegal in the UK) sometimes whilst even hiding the remote for said shock collar so viewers cannot see it.

Can you honestly look at the first picture int he following link and say that the dog is not being choked?! This dog was frightened of the flooring, it was a rescue dog that had never been in a house until the current owners had it.

www.4pawsu.com/cesarfans.htm

he uses them because the owner has them, not because he approves of them. i suppose he is supporting the owner's decision - it does seem odd, but i have seen him say he doesn't like them - he prefers a really simple lead for dogs.

i have seen that jonbee one and it is nothing to do with the floor . jonbee belonged to a dedicated dog fosterer, i'm sure!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjLDQmgYd-s&feature=related

it is not nice to watch but what was the alternative for a dog like that

Community police. Or if you know someone with a big dog take it for a walk past these spaniels. There's a dog that runs down the road trying to bite here & when I took my dog with me it ran the other way (just to point out my dog is on a lead & properly trained & looked after). Another option is to take a big stick. I often have a big umbrella with me in case it rains.

"Can you honestly look at the first picture int he following link and say that the dog is not being choked?! This dog was frightened of the flooring, it was a rescue dog that had never been in a house until the current owners had it."

can you watch the whole story and then comment. cesar milan saved that dog's life and helped the owners.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Is_E0q1jsAE&feature=related

from about 6 minutes 30 seconds

'he's a different dog, that's the bottom line - he's a different dog,' owner says while stroking previously dangerously aggressive dog.

Cesar Millan is dangerous, more than the dogs he purportedly "rehabilitates". This is a widely held view in the veterinary world. using his techniques as a defense against attacking dogs is IMO likely to increase the chances of serious injury.

But we digress. Having dogs in your garden when it is unsecured and they are able to get onto public property and behave threateningly to passers-by is crossing the line from inconsiderate and moving into irresponsible. If you feel able, discuss this with the owner. Failing that inform the local police. It sounds like they are unlikely to cause anyone harm unless they are trying to access the dog's territory. But they are not secured and this is unacceptable.

My last word on this subject:

"it is not nice to watch but what was the alternative for a dog like that"

Ruby, dogs tend to be "like that" because they've been subjected to the sort of ignorant misguided treatment favoured by Millan in the first place. People who try to dominate and challenge dogs often make their pets so fearful that aggression is their only remaining defence. Then the dog is blamed for being aggressive.

If there were less amateur Cesar Millans in this world and people held a better understanding of canine behaviour he would be obsolete. Roll on that day.

Ruby, dogs tend to be "like that" because they've been subjected to the sort of ignorant misguided treatment favoured by Millan in the first place.

That is utter shite .

I can't watch a video as on my iPhone at the moment. However, jonbee was later rehomed if I recall correctly.

It's funny how the average television owner who knows sod all about dogs think that the sun shines out of Cesar's backside and yet all sorts of behaviourist, trainers and animal welfare organisations discount his methods and actually think they are a welfare concern.

I personally don't doubt his methods can work, but they work because the dog is too scared to react at all in many cases. There are other ways of rehabilitating these dogs that are better for the dogs.

'using his techniques as a defense against attacking dogs is IMO likely to increase the chances of serious injury.'

i am not talking about the techniques he usees to rehabiliate the dog, i am talking about practical advice he has to NOT rile aggressive dogs, such as no touch, no talk, no eye contact. stand firm but relaxed. remain calm assertive not aggressive and fearful. etc etc good advice if you ask me.

'because the dog is too scared to react at all in many cases.'

the dogs don't look scared - they look totally relieved that someone who understands them has come to sort out the situation - in fact they LOVE Cesar! and sort it out he does. everybody wins.

terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2010/03/habituation-and-extinction-at-end-of.html

"It's funny how the average television owner who knows sod all about dogs think that the sun shines out of Cesar's backside"

presumptious, much?