to think that the following are a bit offensive

[hairytriangle]

women not using contraception but telling their partners they are

and

women complaining about 'fear of fatherhood'?

Who on earth would want a child with a man that doesn't?

(I speak from experience of having my most fertile years spent with a man who didn't want children - he had some already and didn't want any with me. If it was tht important to me, I should basically have left a lot sooner).

oh dear.

I know this place has been trolled to f**k recently and I am not sure that Hairy knows this. I don't want to inivolve myself in other people's fights but thought I should mention that she definitely isn't trolling.

It's really sad that the real trolls have created this situation where every post and every poster is viewed with suspicion.

Magdalena, me too!
I would never trick him into another baby. However, DP likes the withhdrawal method. (chemical contraceptives, seriously mess with my mind!)He reckons he doesnt want another child, but would accept the consequences should the worst happen! Nothing in the rules to say that I cant hope like hell that the worst will happen!!

YANBU, ive just commented on the thread i think that may have triggered this.

basically, if he doesnt want more kids and you do, and if its really all consuming, you should find someone who does want another child with you.
because bringing an unwanted child into the world is the most damaging thing you could do to a. the child and b. the relationship.
its not fair on more people than just the baby hungry mum.

and i dont GET couples who dont have the contraception thing or the 'what if..' thing sorted.
me and DH dont use condoms, we just use my pill as contraception. the only way we are able to do this is because we have agreed on no more kids. if i got pregnant and he begged me to keep it i'd be devastated, because i would feel like i couldnt trust him with important decisions after that.
having a baby is the one thing you should not take chances with surely

Minipie:

"But the fact is that there are an awful lot of men out there who start off saying they are not all that keen on the idea of having children... but come round when they are nagged consider it further. And when the kids turn up they love them to bits."

I am of the firm belief that if we all took these men at their word, and left them for men who wholeheartedly embraced the idea of having children, then

a) the first category of men would stop equivocating; and
b) men in general wouldn't get to claim, as so many of them do, that they had kids to keep the missus happy and that's why they shouldn't really be expected to change nappies.

It's like housework. Men who go around all 'I don't see the mess, I don't care if the place is messy' as a way to get out of pulling their weight abound. Likewise are the 'well I didn't even really want children, why should I get up in the night?' types.

What about the men who when preparing to get married in their mid-twenties say that they want children and then get 'fear of fatherhood' in their late twenties when their wife is ready to start trying.
This is what happened to me and while I did not deceive DH about contraception, I would have definitely been on here complaining about his fear of fatherhood had mn existed at the time.

My point is that if you have committed to someone and then their values change, why should be offensive to others if you want to complain about it?

I think it is only OK to talk about fear of fatherhood if you also acknowledge only a few men feel this way, and than some women do too. Otherwise it is just a sexist stereotype. In addition you have to recognise that it is a perfectly reasonable thing to feel. Becoming a parent is a huge life changing event and thinking very carefully before taking what is an irrevocable step seems pretty sensible to me. I can see that where partners have a fundamental difference of opinion on having children/more children that is a very very difficult thing to work through (my sister had this with her husband) but agree with hairytriangle that having a child with someone who who really doesn't want one is really not a good idea for anyone.

I also think that saying "well he loves them now they're here" to invalidate someone's previously voiced desire not to have (more) children is illogical because

1. I only know one person brave enough to say she wishes she hadn't had children- it's not something you go round publicising. It would fuck your kids up good and proper if they found out.

1. I love my cat (who we got by accident)and could never give him away, but if I didnt have him and someone said, do you want a cat?, I'd say "no way".

I'd say DH and I both have fear of parenthood! It kicks in when you've talked it over, decided it's a good idea and are faced with the possibility it might happen.

It's a big change but one that women, I think, are more able to accept... Hence it's known as fear of fatherhood.

wave @ Dueling wub.

Magdalena that's a very good point, there is of course the flip side of men who want to screw without a condom and think with something other than their head. They have NO right whatsoever to then have any problem with a woman getting pregnant, because that is what happens (if the woman is lucky )

I guess it's a whole new topic but far too many men expect the woman to take care of contraception without a thought for it themselves.

nooka you've made my point far more eloquently than I did LOL.

It's the use of the phrase'fear of fatherhood' in a patronising taking the piss kind of way that grinds my gears.

I don't doubt that there is FOF genuinely, but to use it as an insult is a bit off, I think.

Oy Hairy... Mumsnet doesn't do 'Wubs' and 'hugs' and 'Huns', just giving you the heads up.

shineoncrazydiamond I can see how it looked like that now. Sorry if I was rude

LOL dueling

oi. I didn't say you were trolling! I answered your question and I then wondered if you were a bloke who felt that he had been tricked into fatherhood.

I don't accuse people of being trolls! I feel very strongly about that (as I've said on some other threads)

People often do a 'reverse AIBU' and I thought this may be one.

Ok, sorry Hecate but asking me if I'm a man in disguise sounds like asking me if I'm a troll! and I didn't use the word 'accuse' I said 'treating as if'

not unless you think that men posting here are trolls.