in thinking Measles can't be more dangerous now than it was 15 years ago ?

[Onajourney]

Hi

Wondering if there are any GP's out there that can tell me this ?

My eldest child is 15 and I still have his baby books and they say Measles is a mild disease and just to keep their temperature down etc, they liken it to chickenpox. I remember not being worried about it at all when he and his 11 year old brother were small.

Fast forward 14 years and we have a 1 year old who is at "huge risk from this killer disease" according our GP, but I can't understand how it can have changed so much.

Can anyone tell me, is Measles worse now than it was 15 years ago and if so why ?

Thanks

If you are only interested in the extreme view, does that mean you accept the middle ground that more research would be helpful? You don't understand the extreme view, but you understand the middle ground? Would you accept that more research is needed?

You really aren't going to answer this are you? You just want to ask, and not answer. It's a shame, as I'm really interested.

Still not addressing the fact that you are extrapolation wildly from what peoe have actually.said re: vaccine concerns and efficacy rates.

I don't think a single person (other than you and expat, who believe you are quoting other posters) has mentioned not having any.one jab available for those who want it.

It doesn't mean they want to take the choice away from everyone else You have extrapolated that.

I don't think mumps vaccination is necessary so I didn't choose it for my children. I wouldn't take the choice away from you.

expat I know

I did promise myself to stay away

I just can't help but try and understand why people with strong anti-vac views have them. I find it so hard to understand, the woman who wanted all vaccinations stopped, I tried to follow her thinking, but it all went a bit wrong. It's certainly not something I'd ever broach in RL with people who have chosen not to vaccinate.

I get why people don't want to vaccinate for measles, mumps and rubella, now.

This tetanus thing is new and interesting though.

Do you know, I also made.myself.a promise a out vax threads.

I promised myself I'd stop engaging with posters who repeatedly ignore what is said and make any old thing up instead

But, here I am again. Glutton for punishment obviously

silver and ho ho

Going to answer my question isnt?

ISNT if one wants to speak in terms of 'antivaccination' (which I think are a bit black and white and unhelpful) then I am probably the sort of person that you could describe in those terms.

Except I'm not antivaccination. I vaccinated my first child quite happily. As it happened she turned out to be in the group of children who don't do so well with vaccines and she was very ill for quite some time. On that basis I haven't vaccinated DD2 because we currently have no screening process or way of knowing if she is vulnerable to adverse reactions too.

I would actually quite like to vaccinated both DDs for measles but I have no way of knowing if it would be safe for them (our doctor firmly does not want to vaccinate DD1 and is not keen for DD2 either).

Anyway all that to say that I think what most of us want is safe vaccines and transparent information that makes an informed choice possible. In the current climate of taboo and polarisation of the issue it would seem very difficult to achieve those (perfectly reasonable) things.

I think vaccination is a fandabbydozy idea - on paper. I happen to have personal experience that the reality is rather more complex.

We take infectious disease seriously in this house - we have to because DD1 is immune compromised. However disease X being dangerous does not automatically make vaccine X a good and safe idea.

Switzerland and Germany both have fairly low vaccination rates for measles. I doubt Wakefield is responsible for that.

Not vaxing for tetanus is one thing, judged on individual risk [though I think risky as child gets older as injuries are unpredictable things] Wanting to drop tetanus from the vaccination schedule is another thing entirely and i can't see anywhere where anyone has said that.

I agree pofaced. I would.love to give the dds a tetanus jab. But not while it is.part of an ill-thought out 5in1.

There is no single tetanus available for children. And I think, often if needed as an adult th are.given the triple too.

I've been working through the thread (yeah, nothing better to do) and this makes me cross:

smallwhitecat: "GPs today appear to me to be nothing more than human computers programmed to spew out the DoH line on anything their patients might ask about."

Yeah. Come and say that to my dh, then, won't you?

there is a single tetanus jab available silverfrog. You can get it at some private clinics.

With regards Anna Duncan and George Fisher - I've heard these childrens cases mentioned before but have never seen any definitive evidence that the MMR caused the deaths - George Fishers inquest categorically denied that there was ANY link between the vaccination and his death. Was another PM or inquest held ? And with regards Anna Duncan - they talked about sending brain tissue samples for analysis - was that ever done ? Has anything ever been scientifically proven in either case ?

It is made by Novartis IIRC.

I find this interesting. inhaled measles vaccine

I have heard that mentioned, but have never managed to track it down, pofaced.

I also need more research to be done to see whether dd2 is likely to react...

Thanks, will look that up for future info.

weegie we've been through that. I responded quite strongly to swc that I thought her comments were unfair.

That's the denial again, Sassy. I don't remember the final findings but I am pretty sure they will have found MMR not to blame. Will post more in the morning.

In the meantime, IIRC George Fisher suffered a febrile convulsion just before the injection and his parents say he should either, not have been given the jab, or they should have been warned of the possibility of more dangerous complications.

IIRC Anna's parents say she was not well, with a cold and recovering from chicken pox, and the jab should have been delayed.

CDC and Bupa official info say measles part of the jab takes effect six to ten days after vax which is when side effects such as rash etc can appear.

Am off for now.

Sassybeast I don't know about Anna's case but I have read about Georgie's case (and had limited conatct with his family though a support group). That the decision was made to rule against the Fisher case is utterly incomprehensible given the evidence presented. A clear case of politics and protection of policy if ever there was one.

It is hugely disappointing to find out that vaccine damage is seen as an inconvenience and bad press for 'the policy' but this recurs time and time again.

Vaccines cannot be safe for all of the people all of the time and those who make up the 'collateral damage' deserve recognition, compensation, treatment, empathy and respect. Unfortunately that is currently not the way it works.

Michelle Cedillo's case in the Autism Omnibus Proceedings in the US is another telling and sad witness to this

Okay - reading more about these cases - was Anna Duncans death ever re investigated in light of her mothers conviction for assaulting another child in her care by injecting her with insulin ?

Sorry for so many questions but google ain't my friend

When I went recently to ask if I should have a booster (attacked by mad dog in Bristol) I would have been given the triple, but they were reluctant to give it to me due to the number of tetanus boosters I've already had.

Will definitely research further - useful to know if ever needed.

I had a single tetanus as an adult after cutting my head open on a rock (climbing accident).

And that was back in 1995.

Yes, I definitely had one when i was a teen. But I have not been able to track one down for children (will look up link given earlier) and was also a bit mystified as to why I was (not) offered the single recently, only th triple.