another dog thread....

[macdoodle]

Have been at my sisters this weekend with my 2 DD's age 2and half and nearly 9. They have a new baby nearly 3 months.
They have a lurcher, very placid and easy going, my DD's have known her for years.
On sunday, we went out for the day, DD2 spent the day holding/dragging the dog around, sitting next to her, stroking and patting her. She is gentle, not afraid of dogs, and knows how to behave, though like any 2 yr old can be a bit energetic !

That evening, me and mum were in the open plan kitchen, sister was out, BIL was upstaits with baby, and the dog was sat in her basket at the other end of the room.

I was watching DD2 but TBh the dog has known her her whole life so was not hypervigilant. Saw DD2 sit down next to her and lean over, heard the dog growl, and shouted at DD2 to get up, but then I think the dog went for her, it was all a bit of a blur, and not clear whether he went to bite or scratch her DD2 was screaming, I ran in, scopped her up (the dog didnt do anymore), and took her in the kitchen. Luckily he hadnt broken the skin but she has 2 nasty looking wheals across the side of her face
Dog seemed fine after, and DD2 happy to go back and pat her though I was very wary

Sister and BIL have poo-pooed it a bit, saying the dog was provoked ,and it was only a warning scratch, DD2 did no more than she has ever done, and I accept maybe the dog was fed up of being played with, but really?? No doubt she went for DD2 and could have hurt her They have a baby now in the house Though am not entirely sure what I would want them to do, they are devoted to the dog!

I'm actually with you shiny (it was a wry comment which obviously didn't translate well ). I too was brought up with dogs and currently have a six month old puppy and three kids. I am totally puzzled by all the dog posts here recently where there seems to be a total absence of common sense!

I can't get my head around the attitude from some that dogs should be placid creatures that put up with all manner of behaviors without complaint and the instant they do complain, be that through a growl or a snap/scratch, they are suddenly agressive animals not to be trusted ever again.

As humans we have the ability to say "no/stop that/get off," when someone bothers us too much, dogs do this by growling and then snapping if they don't get a response.

Op - tbh I don't think it's your place to start giving your sister tips on how she should behave/treat the dog around her child/her child around the dog etc. It is her dog, her child, and up to her how she deals with them spending time together. Telling her what to do/giving advice before they've even reached that point is a bit patronising IMO.

absolutley right wannabe.
i shouldnt imagine your sister will be very happy to hear what her dog did anyway without you printing this off for her.
they have a dog, you will know how dogs and children do and dont mix.

if a DOG GROWLS its saying back off and leave me alone.

teach kids not to bother dogs in their beds,crates etc, as thats they 'safe' place and they shouldnt be bothered there.

dogs are not toys to be cuddled, chased etc all day. they are beings and deserve respect as well.

This is where I agree with the dog lovers.

Dogs should not be provoked, it's up to the adults to teach children, toddlers and the like to treat the animal with respect, not pull, tug, bite and harass the animal to the point where it's so stressed that it responds negatively.
A dog in its basket is in its safe place, likewise don't try and take food or a toy from a dog.
My two are not frightened of dogs and never have been, but I taught them to ask the owner before touching a dog, its an unknown variable.
Whilst a child is learning how to behave around a dog, it's the adults' responsibility to keep the child safe.

Our dog snapped at DD (then 7) last year, and caught her on the face. It was a similar situation - the dog was exhausted, was asleep, and I left my DD for a moment, thinking that she knew to let sleeping dogs lie. She (thinking she knew best!), went over, put a blanket over him, and lay on him. He growled, then caught her face, leaving a small scar. My DD was really upset that we might be cross with the dog, but in fact I was cross with myself.

He's never snapped before or since. I think that's different from an agressive dog - it's more an exhausted dog at the end of its tether. And if he'd wanted to, he could have really bitten hard.

Yes I am more cross with myself than the dog!

my brother has a scar on his nose from when he was very young and he went up behind our old dog and jabbed it in the ribs. the dog turned round and bit him, properly bit him, in the nose.

we didnt get rid of the dog. the dog was startled and scared, and did what comes naturally to it, and my brother was very very stupid to have done that to the dog [he was...12/13 i think] the dog was the dopiest, friendliest old thing ever the rest of the time.

just thought i share a story of why and when dogs DO bite!

Keep an eye on dogs especially if a kid has been pestering it all day, remember dogs are pack animals when a lower member of the pack bothers it, growling and warning bites and the like will occur to make the lower pack member back off.

All ways pay attention to the position of people in the pack, it's easy to tell by the dogs behaviour what the perceived states is.

Thank you all, for sensible answers and not shouting at me!
I was really quite shaken and expecting blood to be puring out of her beautiful face!
She is a usually calm and placid dog, and I think just fed up, DD2 should have been more closely supervised and we have had a chat about letting dogs rest and some of the good advice here!
Sis and I are very close, she will be fine and I will chat about the advice here!

Thansk for calming my neurotic tendency down, luckily alls well, and lesson learnt with just a scratch!

"when a lower member of the pack bothers it, growling and warning bites and the like will occur to make the lower pack member back off".

I think that is part of the answer tbh. My dogs have had it reinforced that they are lower in the pack than the children - there are various things that can be done such as being seen to eat prior to feeding the dogs; hence my dogs are in the vicinity when the children have their tea (under my supervision) and only get their doggy meal after everyone else has eaten. There are others things like making sure that the dog doesn't push infront of you (or the kids)when you are leaving the room, but rather follows in your wake (I was taught this at puppy training).....

Perhaps a crate might work well for your sister, especially once the baby gets mobile as it would give the dog somewhere safe to retreat to.

IIRC crating a dog everytime children arrives gives it the impression that children are the enemy ? wasn't there a thread or a situation in the news where the dogs were locked in another room or outside & then got in & attacked a child ?

Perhaps an open crate where the dog can go & the child/children are told to leave well alone ?

Also agree about taking actions to ensure the dog knows it's at the bottom of the pack. When I was young our dog would regulary growl at me & my mum though it was funny, that he was loved her so much & had to guard her from me