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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that if you were shocked or saddened by Israel's actions today you could

136 replies

lowrib · 31/05/2010 14:35

spare a moment or two to write a letter or an email to voice your protest.

For those of you who haven't seen the news, Israeli forces today stormed a flotilla of boats which were trying to deliver humanitarian aid to Palestine and shot dead 19 people, injuring many more. The people on the ships were an international group of unarmed civilians, and they were in international waters.

A friend of mine is on one of the ships. I'm yet to hear any news (Israel seem to be doing all they can to block any communication).

What you can do to help ...

(Copied from the Stop the War Coalition at stopwar.org.uk/content/view/1906/1/)

PROTEST TO FOREIGN SECRETARY WILLIAM HAGUE:

BY EMAIL: [email protected] AND [email protected] AND [email protected]

BY LETTER TO: William Hague MP, Foreign Secretary, King Charles Street, London, SW1A 2AH

PROTEST TO YOUR MP:
findyourmp.parliament.uk

PROTEST TO DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER NICK CLEGG
EMAIL: [email protected]

LETTER TO: Nick Clegg MP, House of Commons, London, SW1A 0AA

Thanks.

OP posts:
TheCoalitionNeedsYou · 01/06/2010 10:46

shdad - it's not just unpopular, it's legally incorrect.

zazizoma · 01/06/2010 10:50

Anyone else disturbed by Cameron's paltry statement today urging "Israel to respond constructively to legitimate criticism of its actions, and to do everything possible to avoid a repeat of this unacceptable situation." Where are the sanctions???

I am in agreement that Israel illegally boarded a ship in international waters and that the real issue is once again Israel's disregard for international law and non-Jewish life, and the western world's tacit permission for their actions.

OrmRenewed · 01/06/2010 10:51

I normally feel very strongly that Israel is heavy-handed and usually wrong . Tye blockade is immoral and unfair. But in this case it does look like deliberate provocation. They knew what would happen. Why did they fight the soldiers when they boarded the ship if there was nothing but humanitarian aid on board?

i don't think it's quite that straightforward.

TheShriekingHarpy · 01/06/2010 10:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

TheCoalitionNeedsYou · 01/06/2010 10:53

OrmRenewed - Whatever the actions of the campaigners Israel acted illegally.

OrmRenewed · 01/06/2010 10:55

Yes. But it seems to me that international law doesn't seem to apply to Israel and as a result their reaction shouldn't have been a surprise to anyone.

LadyBiscuit · 01/06/2010 10:57

State sponsored terrorism. I am appalled that anyone can continue to justify Israel's actions. I find it sickening

I am going to write to President Obama too - he is the holder of the Nobel Peace prize and I think he needs to do something more to merit that accolade

tryingtoleave · 01/06/2010 11:16

Was it illegal? I have been busy with the kids all day and haven't been following the news but Israel is a belligerent and therefore does have rights to blockade and inspect ships etc. And civlians/aid workers who fight lose their protected status. Just pointing out that international law doesn't always say what people might want it to.

slim22 · 01/06/2010 11:17

Agree with Orm and others.
It is hard to argue that it was a provocative act. But it did have the desired effect of showing once more that Israel is not held accountable and can openly and repeatedly flaunt International law.

There is a new paradigm in International relations due to the fact that "emerging" countries are no longer "emerging" but faring rather better than most developped countries and are making their voices heard.
The current US administration has yet to formulate their spin on the middle east. There is a sort of vacuum on this matter.

Take Turkey. It openly backed the convoy. The turkish government is on a high having just brokered deal in Iran.

It is a question of momentum, and I can't see why a "provocation" which is lined with good intentions is a bad thing if it rebalances perspectives and biases in favor of Israel.

Anniebee65 · 01/06/2010 11:18

To add to their appalling strategic error, Israel are compounding their mistakes by their treatment of the people who they have detained and by extension their lack of respect for the governments of the countries these people came from.

People who never intended to enter Israel are now being asked to sign documents stating the entered illegally, at which point they will be deported for this illegal entry. Foreign embassies in Israel are being denied access to their citizens. The world media is being keep out of Ashdod. All lines of communication with those who are detained are closed.

These are not 'enemy combatants', they are civilians. This sort of treatment is just not acceptable. This isn't an event, it's a process and it's far from over.

Anniebee65 · 01/06/2010 11:24

International Law states:

"Part III : Status and treatment of protected persons #Section III : Occupied territories
ARTICLE 59
If the whole or part of the population of an occupied territory is inadequately supplied, the Occupying Power shall agree to relief schemes on behalf of the said population, and shall facilitate them by all the means at its disposal.
Such schemes, which may be undertaken either by States or by impartial humanitarian organizations such as the International Committee of the Red Cross, shall consist, in particular, of the provision of consignments of foodstuffs, medical supplies and clothing.
All Contracting Parties shall permit the free passage of these consignments and shall guarantee their protection.
A Power granting free passage to consignments on their way to territory occupied by an adverse Party to the conflict shall, however, have the right to search the consignments, to regulate their passage according to prescribed times and routes, and to be reasonably satisfied through the Protecting Power that these consignments are to be used for the relief of the needy population and are not to be used for the benefit of the Occupying Power."

Israel is the occuping power and if it had agreed to the relief scheme, as clearly it should have, then it would have had the right to inspect the cargo, they didn't grant access to the occupied ,ie Gazans, and so had no right to search the ships. Turkey is not an adverse party, but a friend of Israel, at least before this, and so again, Israel had no right to search the ships.

zazizoma · 01/06/2010 11:27

Thanks Anniebee!

tryingtoleave · 01/06/2010 11:36

The geneva convention does not say anywhere that an occupying force cannot inspect consignments coming into an occupied territory. And no state would ever accept that as an interpetation of international law. All that article says is that other states can inspect the consignment (as indeed they can inspect anything they want).

In fact:

Art. 62. Subject to imperative reasons of security, protected persons in occupied territories shall be permitted to receive the individual relief consignments sent to them.

That means that a state could always stop aid from getting to occupied people on the basis of security. And that is the way international law pretty much always works.

tryingtoleave · 01/06/2010 11:39

And rather than just mentioning articles that is the Geneva Convention IV, 1949.

tryingtoleave · 01/06/2010 11:40

The intention was obviously to test the blockade and provoke Israel (otherwise why else would there have been journalists on board) and Israel was stupid enough to fall into the trap.

Anniebee65 · 01/06/2010 11:44

The blockade becomes illegal when it causes the palestinian people's human rights to be violated such as right to shelter which blocking construction material clearly violates. The international court of justice ruled that gaza is under effective occupation and per the geneva convention and the human rights declaration of 1948 israel is now responsible for the population that it has occupied and when it fails to provide these needs as UN reports have confirmed consistently the blockade becomes ILLEGAL.

HalfTermHero · 01/06/2010 11:49

The only possible positive to this disgusting action is that now the eyes of the world are clearly focused in judgment and condemnation of Israel. People who previously had no opinion on the situation have now formed a 'view' and are clear on who the 'unreasonable' side is. A massive own goal on Israel's part.

Ryoko · 01/06/2010 12:21

I have no problem what so ever in saying I hate Israel they have been slaughtering people for years and crying victim afterwards.

The massacre at the refugee camp, the bulldozing of homes and then building settlements, the wall, the strict boarder controls, the killing of activists and humanitarians, the prevention of aid and building equipment getting in to the region.

Israel does not want peace it wants to take over the entire area for jews only, Hamas gives them a good excuse to continue the ethnic cleansing, all Israel do is create provocation, so they can continue to have an excuse for what they do. Now if I'm wrong about that and they really want peace then they must be the thickest people in the world to think this is how you go about getting it.

I'd also like to know when the international community is going to do something about all the WMD Israel have, if the excuse for matching into Iraq was WMDs that didn't even exist why has nothing been done about Israel when the whole world knows they have illegal nukes.

Oh and I'd like to know what the Israel navy shouted at them from the navy boats before the helicopters dropped troops onto the decks, the video footage from the news shows the humanitarians donned life jackets, after the navy showed up meaning they feared the boats would be sunk, so I really would like to know what kind of treats where said to try and get them to turn back.

shdad · 01/06/2010 12:24

ThebossofMe ? The fact it was in international waters is irrelevant. If Israel suspected the aid was going to help terrorists they have every moral right to try and stop it, whatever international law says. Do you think Hamas care about international law? Do you think Hezbollah do? I am amazed at how many people here would rather Israel gave in to terrorism/didn?t protect its citizens.

Anniebee65 · 01/06/2010 12:32

You see there's that word again ...terrorism.

Denial is a powerful thing. It enables people to behave in unacceptable or even murderous ways. Here it is folks. Plain and simple. OCCUPATION. OCCUPATION. OCCUPATION. OCCUPATION. Keep repeating it to yourself until it overcomes your denial. OCCUPATION is the source, root cause and reason for any and all of this. When you put your boot on somebody's head, you can call them terrorists when they fight back and try to remove your boot, or you can set aside denial and recognize that your boot is the problem. OCCUPATION. OCCUPATION. OCCUPATION. Try repeating it. It might work.

TheCoalitionNeedsYou · 01/06/2010 12:35

shdad - their moral right is irrelevant, they had no legal right,

zazizoma · 01/06/2010 12:40

See this Haaretz article condemning Israel's blindness.

LadyBiscuit · 01/06/2010 12:54

Amnesty report on Gaza blockage. I urge you all to read it - especially those of you who are defending Israel's actions

shdad · 01/06/2010 12:55

Anniebee65 ? so Hamas are not terrorists?

zazizoma · 01/06/2010 13:07

Good grief shdad, they are freedom-fighters or terrorists all depending on which side you are supporting. It's a meaningless term. I suggest that trying to keep a tally of who has behaved more badly, the Palestinians or the Israelis, on a case by case count is pointless.

I do believe that as the occupiers, the Israelis have the moral imperative to behave with more decency, compassion and humility than those they oppress. Instead, they display little but contempt.