dog attack revisited

[analytic]

"The girl's stepfather also suffered injuries to his arm as he grappled with the dog"

Ha! He should have kicked it.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/northamptonshire/10196568.stm

Gold stars for BritFish. Excellent, sensible and measured post.

To balance out the awful attack mentioned, my DDs regularly come with me to help at a rescue which has, depending on circumstances, between 60 and 80 dogs ib their care. They have never been bitten or attacked.

Their experiences don't make the headlines because children mixing with dogs and not being hurt, albeit the majority, are not news.

pisceslondon - even a small dog can do some serious damage and in my opinion and experience they do nip and snaps more often than a larger dog.

OP this little girl has serious facial damage. Point scoring really is pathetic. And what happened to your child and this is completely different.

Pisces london Sounds like the grandparents are the problem then and not the dog.
This would probably be about right,as more children are statistically abused by their relatives than mauled by their dog.Unbelievable but true.

Goblinchild Thats nice.......

Just to be clear Darkandstormy, are you insinuating that pisces ILs may be statistically likely to abuse her DD, and that you believe they might?

perhaps statistically more than the dog.They beyond reasonable doubt won't, but then beyond reasonable doubt their do will also not attack.SIMPLE INNIT.

darkandstormy i guess GP's have really spoilt the dog, they let her do as she pleases (jump on furniture, take food from their plate etc..) she doesn't really know any boundaries. she is also very protective of my MIL and can get jealous over her. if the dog had been trained and knew boundaries then things might be slightly different. i also think they (well, moreso my MIL) are convinced the dog would never attack my DD and don't really understand why i would think otherwise.

i guess i'm just the type of parent of wouldn't ever play with their child's life. IMO the dog and my baby mixing is not worth the risk.

sorry of course that mean't to read dog.

Why don't you do a swap then you take the dog for the day and they take dd.WIN WIN.

PiccesLondon, whilst I respect your way of dealing with your children, can I say that I have two large breed dogs - my GSD is the 2nd I've owned and I also foster dogs. My boys are spoilt, sleep where they like and my Lab X protective with me. I also have 2 DDs who have lived with dogs all their lives. Safely.

My concern is that it comes across as if you are branding MILs dog as a danger because of his breed, when ANY dog has the potential to harm. Most, thank god, don't. I feel very strongly about this issue, being aware that this view has caused innocent family dogs to die since the advent of the Dangerous Dogs Act. As a result I'm a supporter of the Deed Not Breed campaign.

Oh pah, I meant protective of me, of course.

MintHumbug, thats what im suggesting, that non-owners have an opportunity to find out just a little more info about doggy behaviours, because we owners have responsibility, but also the knowledge, and we need to share that to encourage harmony and doggy lurve.
[you'll have to excuse if my typing seems strange, i just dropped a load of crisp crumbs over my keyboard and my typing's a bit crunchy ]
yeah, most dogs dont like to be patted, il just clear that up. a friend told me it feels more aggressive to their tiny dog skulls or something... my dog hates it, he gives me this look of pure contempt if i try it.
i know it seems like people get bitten by dogs all the time, but nobody ever talks about the majority of trained pets and owners that dont get bitten.
you said "apart from the obvious of course - I'm not going to let my kids kick a dog" if you've read the recent dog thread you'll know that it is sadly less obvious to other people
if a dog does come bounding up to you and your DC's, i would advise encouraging them to continue as normal and trying to appear friendly, as jumping around makes dogs think you are playing a game and are more likely to jump unfortunately! i know my friends uber friendly spaniel seems to react stronger to people who appear afraid, its like he's trying to win them over, the daft thing. and asking the owner if the dog is friendly is always a good oppurtnity to get some dog/kid interaction going, or demonstrate to the DC's that some are not friendly, and you must always ask owners permission. im sure you've heard all this before, but its worth mentioning to others

Just makes me so that we are all here having this debate again,lack of knowledge re dogs..

me too dark and stormy. that dog kicking thread was an awful eye opener. not knowing anything about dogs is fine, and im sure a lot of people learnt a lot from that thread on how to handle strange dogs, but its appalling that there are so many people out there who think kicking a friendly dog was okay.

darkandstormy IL's tend to come to our place for the day, or we all go out for dinner etc.. they see her plenty, we even go to their home for a few hours with DD and ensure that the dog is locked in another room. i just won't leave her their as i'm not sure they would keep dog locked away if i weren't around.

vallhala i suppose i am branding the dog dangerous because of her breed, but it's only because of her power and size. i just know that if she did turn, we would all be pretty powerless to do anything. i totally see were you are coming from though, and as i say, if she had been trained and actually obeyed anyone then things would be slightly different. i know plenty of dogs and kids live together and there's never an issue, but my gut instinct with this dog tells me that i need to keep my DD out of her way for now.

So much resentment on mn towards dogs infuriates me tbh.I have also picked up on jealousy of dogs belonging to partner/parents really pathetic, what is that all about?

PISCESLONDON I think because I have owned dogs all my life I find it really hard to put myself in your position tbh Please I know I may be a bit strong in what I say I do not mean to offend but I really am sure the dog will be fine, but obviously I am not you.Tbh you are more likely that the dog will want to lick yourdd to death.

darkandstormy, how do you mean, jealousy?

and OP, your inlaws are being unreasonable. if they cant guarantee the dog will be locked away then they dont get your daughter on her own. its not about trying to dictate what they should do in their own home, its them not understanding a valid fear you have for your daughter and their dog. I cant offer any advice apart from your inlaws need to get that dog trained, as every dog should be. if a dog cannot obey simple commands from the owner, then it owns them and is not a safe pet to have, especially around children. hope you get it sorted

BRITFISH Not on this thread but others on mn where mothers have this weird percieved view that THEIR mothers put their pets before grandchildren iyswim builds this wall of resentment.

the same mothers who think that every dog in the universe could easily turn and rip their child to shreds and that avoiding dogs completely and reacting to normal doggy behaviour violently is productive in bringing up a child who has no fear of dogs and knows how to handle them?
some mothers -like this OP, have genuine reasons for concern, such as the dog shows no signs of being trained or responding to the owners. but 9/10 it is hysterical media scare mongering 'the dog will rip my childs face off first chance it gets!'
this OP is the most reasonable one i've seen in a long time [well done on that, btw ;)]

darkandstormy you haven't offended me, i know we all have different view points, especially on a subject like this. i haven't really been around dogs all my life, i've only owned one dog when i was a child (a minature border collie - she was lovely and i still miss her!) i know if push came to shove them my IL's would always put my DD before the dog, but it needn't ever come to that, it works well with them taking her for days out or spending the day at my house with her.

britfish thank you. their is no massive issue right now as our arrangement works well but how many times can you say no to someone before they take offence and think you are being unreasonable? i suppose we'll cross that bridge if/when we come to it. that's the biggest concern for me, that the dog doesn't listen to a word that is said to her. my DP is also to blame for that though. he was supposed to make arrangements for the dog to be trained (5 years ago when they got it) and never did.

I would be concerned that a dog which is continually shut away from a visitor, child or otherwise, might become naturally all the more curious - and please note, curious, not aggressive - when and if he met up with them. Far better ime to introduce the two with supervision and boundaries, such as the dog not being allowed to bounce at the visitor and the visiting child not being allowed to roughly handle/lean on etc the dog than to make each other forbidden fruit.

I know it is not much help to the poor 2 year old who has been attacked by this dog, but US research has shown that dog biting incidents on school age children can be reduced by 80% if the children are given one hours training in reducing high risk behaviour around unfamiliar dogs.

So it is definitely worth looking up advice sites on how to behave around dogs - even young children can learn that if you are alarmed by an approaching dog you should stand still like a tree and remain quiet.

Dogs are not going to be banned from this country, however much some people would like them to be. They are part and parcel of every day life and statistically far less likely to be involved in the death of a child than balloons are. But we all need to teach our children how to understand basic dog behaviour and respond to it sensibly. Because however well trained a dog is, it is still a dog and will respond as such.

vallhalla my DD has only just turned 8 months old so obviously she won't understand how to act around a dog yet. my worry is that the dog knows no boundaries, when i was pregnant and visiting inlaws, the dog always bounded down the hallway and jumped all over me. paws all over my stomach etc.. she was told repeatedly to calm down/sit etc... and she completely ignored what was being said! at 9 months pregnant she follwed me up the stairs and nearly knocked me down the lot. she used to really hurt my HUGE bump and in the end i had to ask that if we were visiting could the dog please be kept in another room until i'd got in and sat down.

i guess i'll have to play it by ear as DD gets older but for now i'm keeping them apart.

pisceslondon, you are so sane i could hug you. you have restored my faith in mumsnetter/dog negotiations!