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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think the dog should go?

27 replies

DetectivePotato · 29/05/2010 20:34

Close friend of mine has dogs. She adores them. Has a young child.

Recently one of the dogs bit the child on the arm and left a bruise. Now the same dog has bitten the child again and left awful marks on the childs arm.

I'm not a dog lover anyway but after the first instance it would have been gone. My friend is reluctant to get rid of it as she loves her dogs and said she is going to get someone in to train the dog. I asked her what she will do if it doesn't work and she said she supposes she will have to give it away.

AIBU to think the dog should have gone after the first biting incident? Not a staffy or anything, and sorry for another dog thread. Seems to have been a few lately.

OP posts:

Hassled · 29/05/2010 20:37

Yes, if it were me the dog would be long gone. Do you think she actually will get someone in to train it?

worldgonemad72 · 29/05/2010 20:39

as much as i love my dog it would have to go.

OhExpletive · 29/05/2010 20:39

This will kick off

And hard to say without knowing more about the specifics of the situation.

BUT

I think the issue here is that your friend may not have adequately recognised the risk level. I can only assume that the child has been unsupervised with the dog, or has been allowed to mistreat the dog in some way. Getting someone in to train the dog won't help if your friend isn't capable of safely separating the children and dogs when she can't be there to supervise, or if your friend thinks it's OK for the children to behave how they like around animals.

Should the dog go? In this situation, unless your friend has a reality check and realises it's her responsibility to keep the home environment safe for her children and her dog then perhaps it is best to home the dog elsewhere. In many other situations it would never have got as far as one bite, let alone two, because the risk would have been properly identified and managed.

PersonalClown · 29/05/2010 20:39

As much as I love my little woofer (and he IS a staffy), when the second bite occurred, the dog would be gone.
At the end of the day, it is still an animal and my child comes first.
She had the warning when it bit the first time.

Others will disagree with me on waiting after the first bite but I would have been more proactive on dealing with the problems.

SolidGoldBrass · 29/05/2010 20:45

Will she agree to get rid of the dog when it tears the kid's face off, do you think? A dog that has bitten twice is NOT SAFE around children and never will be.
Was the dog punished for biting, even? If not, then the dog is going to bite again simply because it knows that biting is acceptable.

RunawayWife · 29/05/2010 20:47

If it were me I would have got rid of the dog the first time it bit

OhExpletive · 29/05/2010 20:48

SGB, that's a little erroneous. Punishment is completely irrelevant in the case of any aggression.

LisaD1 · 29/05/2010 20:49

When I was growing up we always had dogs, usually because I would bring home all the waifs and strays! We had a gorgeous lab x collie whom I adored. He was a brilliant dog until he got kicked by some tosser when he growled at him in defence of me. Shortly after that the dog became aggressive towards strangers, a few months later my cousin and I arrived home from school and wanted to go into the garden, where the dog was already, cousin ran out first and dog bit him, not badly but enough to break the skin.

That dog had been a perfect pet for 12 years, he went to the vet that day and never came home.

I was distraught at the time but now believe my parents did the right thing (anyone who has read my other post about them will know they didn't get much right the rest of the time!)

I love my animals but the minute they become a danger they have to go.

undercovamutha · 29/05/2010 20:52

Oh God another dog thread !

FWIW I would deffo get rid of it after the 2nd bite (the 1st bite if it had been serious) - but then I'm not a dog-lover so may be biased.

Original poster

DetectivePotato · 29/05/2010 21:01

I really hope it doesn't kick off. I'm not looking for a fight at all. Just genuinely wondering what others would do.

I think the child was slightly annoying the dog. My friend is very good and tells her child off etc, don't think she really leaves her unsupervised. The dogs seem to follow her around the house anyway. No idea if she tells the dog off, I would imagine she does but can't say for definite. There is someone who has already said they will take the dog so she has already asked but she seems very reluctant.

OP posts:

fulltimeworkingmum · 29/05/2010 21:06

That's a really difficult one. I agree with those who suggest that the child may have aggravated the dog but it's still not acceptable to keep an animal who has injured your child. I have a 12 year old dog who has been with me since she was 6 weeks old. I met my DH later and we have 2
DCs age 4 and 2 but thankfully my dog has always been devoted to the children - I cannot imagine how I would feel if she hurt them, apart from GUTTED as I would know what I had to do.

slushy06 · 29/05/2010 21:09

I am usually on the dogs side but I would have sent him to rescue, probably after the first bite if it was not a accident and my child had not been teasing, then I am sorry he would have gone. If the child was at fault I would have tried to teach my dc but been super cautious and second time would have been it I am afraid.

MillyR · 29/05/2010 21:20

I think she should rehome the dog with someone who does not have children or has older (teenage) children. It really is not that big a deal to a dog to be sent to a new home.

fulltimeworkingmum · 29/05/2010 21:49

Just saw the post from PersonalClown - mine's a Staffy too. A 12 yr old dog in a puppy's body. I've had several staffies and none of them have ever been any thing but teddy bears around people...probably to do with their socialisation. If you train them to be aggressive then stand by!

SirBoobAlot · 29/05/2010 21:54

We have always had German Sheps, we love them, they are members of our family. BUT if any one had bitten, it would have been either straight to a shelter or straight, sadly, to the vets.

A biting dog is not safe.

Original poster

DetectivePotato · 29/05/2010 21:56

"A biting dog is not safe"

That is my opinion too. My dads DP has a dog that has bitten a few times. I refuse to take DS down there at all.

OP posts:

bumpsoon · 29/05/2010 22:00

What id like to know first is ,did the dog bite aggressively or did it nip in over excited play ? if its the first then your friend needs to rehome now ,if its the second then either your friend needs to put a hell of alot of effort into training or rehome now ! My dog came to me as a rescue and is /was great with kids ,but he would get over excited when the little ones were hurtling/screaming round the garden and hadnt learnt that he was too big and clumsy to join in ,so he wsnt allowed . My friends daughter who has been brought up with dogs let him into the garden and then wound him up into a frenzy and he grabbed her and bruised her arm . I was very angry with this child ,who was 10 at the time , because she knew the dog wasnt cmpletely trained ,she knew he got excited easily ,he was 13 months at the time and i was angry because i was worried at the harm he could of done . The dog is still here ,only because i knew 100% there was no malice on his part and because i knew i would put the time and effort into training him .

Original poster

DetectivePotato · 29/05/2010 22:06

I don't know but there were 2 seperate bites on childs arm that looked really awful. Not really deep but many many marks.

OP posts:

bumpsoon · 30/05/2010 10:01

Poor child ,how old is the child ? I think it would be best if she can rehome it to someone without children ,who is experienced with dogs ,i think a rescue would put it down if she says it has bitten her child .

smokinaces · 30/05/2010 10:16

I would rehome it. We had a dog, a gorgeous german shepherd. DS1 was 8mo at the time, when it bit another dog aggressively whilst out walking, and then bit an adults leg (only ripping trousers thankfully)

She was rehomed immediately as we couldnt trust her in the house with the baby, and our child came first. She ended up going to a friend who had older children, and has settled well there and no other incidents (its been 3 years now)

I would not be able to trust a dog at all that had ever bitten. My Nan had a dog that was always kept behind a dog gate, but still managed to bite my sisters hand - after that I think it was always kept outside.

Lambriniknickers · 30/05/2010 10:24

It's a really tough call without knowing all the facts.

We've got two rotties and a two year old DD and we havv always said that if either of them bit in malice they would HAVE to go. But that's because they have been trained by us, from puppies, and we are very strict on not leaving them unsupervised with DD. In turn, she has been 'trained' (as much as you can with a two year old) that she needs to be gentle with them and leave their toys alone. So, any act of aggression would be unprevoked and unacceptable, so the dog in question would go.

I agree with previous posters who say that it might have been that the dog got over excited and 'mouthed' rather than bit. Is the dog young? Ours tried this a little as young puppies, but it was easy enough to train out of them by being firm and consistent. If this is the case, it's really the fault of your friend for allowing the situation to occur.

MrsC2010 · 30/05/2010 10:26

Was it a proper bite or a play bite? If it was a play bite it sounds perhaps like the dog just needs a little training, play biting is an instinct. If it was an aggressive bite it would be very different I ssupect.

Athrawes · 30/05/2010 10:53

I am 35 weeks pregnant with first child and have had our much loved rescue mutt for a year now. He is probably eight, a bit blind and stupid and loves to play with his mouth. He will hold my hand in the morning, softly with his mouth, to say "feed me!". He understands he cannot go into the babies room already. I adore him but will NEVER leave the baby in the same room as him alone. If a dog bites in aggression or fear that is it - no second chance.

BritFish · 30/05/2010 16:50

first bite no, second bite yes.
however, depends on what kind of bite it was. my dog bites me all the time in play, and he has a warning bite and a proper bite [which i have never been on the receiving end of]
if it was a play bite, id keep the dog in the garage/other room when the child was around.
if it was a proper bite:
if he had done it unprovoked, hed be gone. and i love my dog, but if he attacked someone unprovoked hed be out of here faster than anything.
if he was provoked, he wouldnt be anywhere near the child for there to be a second time tbh...

i know this is going to sound odd to a lot of people, but i got my dog [jack russell terrier] when my kids were 7 and 5 [they are now 19 and 17]
my dog bit them a few times when they were younger, after they had provoked him and pulled his tail. he never broke the skin, it was a warning nip. too many people would get rid of the dog, but the kids provoked him, and they needed to learn to respect animals and others, so we kept the dog. the dog now respects my DC's more than anyone [ie me and DH] and he never bit them again after the first few incidents. they were warning nips. delivered a short sharp shock which got the message across. if he ever bit them unprovoked, hed have been gone.
i wouldnt trust him to be a guard dog if he did not defend himself, and he has defended our family well over these years. my kids love this dog. he hates strangers with a passion because of his loyalty to his family, and as responsible owners we never let him off the lead, or allow him to rush up to visitors who we dont know/dont know how to handle him.

Original poster

DetectivePotato · 30/05/2010 19:42

I think the child was annoying the dog and it was a couple of warning bites.

Obviously dog lovers will do what they can and say that the child shouldn't have annoyed the dog but I think this is always going to be inevitable with young children and dogs which is why, if it does bite, it is too much of a risk IMHO. Next time it may not be a warning nip.

OP posts:

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