in thinking that the Government cannot possibly ensure people are better off working than on benefits unless they increase wages massively?

[TheJollyPirate]

TBH I cannot see how the Govt are going th achieve their aim to make sure "nobody is better off financially on benefits than in work".

I work part-time as I have a son with a disability. I take home £849 and get Tax credit of £190 plus Child benefit of course - Working Tax credit adds another £50 - all in all just over £1100. I am just over the limit for housing benefit and all other help although if DLA is approved for my son that may change a bit.

One of my families gets housing benefit of £700 a month plus tax credit, plus income support, plus child benefit. On paper at least they out-strip me and unless wages drastically improve (oh - was that a recession I just saw over there) then nothing much CAN change. The Govt are talking big but cannot deliver no matter what they say.

I will stay worse off financially than the family I work with who will remain unemployed because wages are NEVER going to amount to enough for them to get work and maintain their home. Not their fault and I am more fortunate in other ways but financially - nah - they are doing a bit better than me (but probably only just).

I am watching the Govt but not holding my breath on this one.

Or do you know different?

If so - explain because I am being a bit thick about it.

'wow - care work in a care home that's just school hours. I have never seen those before! Usually it's 7-2 (8-3), 2-9 (3-10), 9-7 (10-8), with rotating shifts and weekends as a "MUST" be able to do.

There are no childminders that do unsociable hours round here, certainly not as late as 9/10pm. '

A lot of places have had to chance to deal with the shoftfall. Its the same as my nursery I do until 6.30 every night. The other mums do school hours or 8-1. Its very difficult to recruit staff who will work at afternoons/evenings. No one wants to do it, even though really you could put the child in a childminder (as we finish at 6) the mums always want to pick their kids up from school or they wont consider it. People have turned down jobs because of it but I think beggars cant be choosers and I would do it in a second.

Tocca - the one I worked in was 7-2, 1.30-8 or 7am-8pm

and yes, weekends were compulsory.

I think Expat is one of the most sensible, lcued-up MNers I know.

me too Jarm - I can't WAIT to meet her in August either (yes - suck on eggs you lot this workshy mum on benefits is going on holiday for a whole 3 weeks in August - 2 weeks in Edinburgh, 1 week in Liverpool.............woohoo NORTH here we come )

blimey just realise it's only another 2 months before we go

katycarr - if your partner has no pension, I would strongly advise checking out what they would be entitled to if you die first. I believe the teachers pension makes some provsion for your 'nominated person' but I would definitely check the detail.

I am shocked by some of my friends who have no pension provision of their own, and erroneously believe that if their husband dies first, the whole lot will automatically transfer to them.

Sorry to sound doom and gloom , but got to be realistic! I don't quite have the full pension as I had a year out altogether with maternity leaves, but mine's not bad. DH will have the full 40 years, but as I say, great if we retire and have both, but I would never rely on someone else's entirely.

katycarr - if your partner has no pension, I would strongly advise checking out what they would be entitled to if you die first. I believe the teachers pension makes some provsion for your 'nominated person' but I would definitely check the detail.

I am shocked by some of my friends who have no pension provision of their own, and erroneously believe that if their husband dies first, the whole lot will automatically transfer to them.

Sorry to sound doom and gloom , but got to be realistic! I don't quite have the full pension as I had a year out altogether with maternity leaves, but mine's not bad. DH will have the full 40 years, but as I say, great if we retire and have both, but I would never rely on someone else's entirely.

actually the one I work in was 7-3, 2.45-1-10, and then my shifts were 9.45pm-7am, was 7.30 when I applied and started then they chopped the 1/2hr off with no notice.

No need to apologise - I have nothing against Americans so if your comment was intended to be offensive (? don't think so?) it failed.

I am NOT against welfare state I am against people taking the piss

My dp is entitled to nothing if I die first, it goes to my daughter at his insistence.

He is not relying on my pension in my absence! But I know realistically that we will be living on my pension. To be fair to him we had to freeze his pension because he was supporting my decision to be a SAHM and my ex husband left us with a lot of debt to pay off. We also could not keep 2 pensions going and pay for my healthcare so we kept mine going. So he does have a pension but there is very little in it.

He is also 10 years older than me.

Stuck, isn't there social housing in London as well? You just have to go to where the jobs are. Not all London jobs are dead-end. There are lots more opportunities for upward, sideways progression and career change.

I could not think of a better place for work than London. Lots of jobs at the job centre.

No, it was not intended to be offensive. Simply that in America there is very different view of social welfare in general. I was attempting to see where you are coming from. I would actually be more understanding of an American with your apparent views.

Yes there is social housing in London. There is also a huge demand for it.

So, say I was lucky enough to find childcare so I could work 9 til 5, by the time I picked kids up and got home, it would be around 5.45, dts go to ed at around 7pm ( just lately anyway ) that gives me and hour and 15 minutes to prepare ad cook tea, do homework and reading, bath, story, and bedtime, I dont see how that is possible, and I'm sure lots of other single parents would also have trouble juggling this.

I really do think that we have bashed out almost anything and everything we can on this thread, and still end up having to disagree on certain issues.

Sweeping cuts across the board to those on benefits will result in severe poverty and a lot of unrest in the country as a whole.

I do believe that anyone on benefits at the moment, and Im talking about those who are choosing it as a lifestyle choice, will be waking up to the fact their "choices" are going to be taken away from them and they I believe they will currently be trying to find whatever job they can. The news channels at the moment are scaring the hell out of those that HAVE to be on benefits at the moment, so surely they will be panicking just as much?

and it seems some of my buttons dont want to work, sorry for typos.

You don't have to be an American to consider the current benefit system in the UK to be broken in many respects. It is just common sense.

"lots of jobs at the job centre" - what sort of jobs? More than 16hrs?, ones that don't require specific skills/experience? Ones that are those dodg "earn up to X a week" (and written underneath this employer has assured us this is at least minimum wage.................if you work every hour that god has given you, meet all their targets and sell your soul to the devil).

As for where the jobs are (outside London), they are largely with the people who held on to them even before all this financial crisis started. And kept their skills marketable and up to date.

It is not fullproof (you can always be made redundant) but you would certainly be in a better position than scrambling for minimum wage jobs with family friendly hours.

Those are the benefits of long term employment.

'So, say I was lucky enough to find childcare so I could work 9 til 5, by the time I picked kids up and got home, it would be around 5.45, dts go to ed at around 7pm ( just lately anyway ) that gives me and hour and 15 minutes to prepare ad cook tea, do homework and reading, bath, story, and bedtime, I dont see how that is possible, and I'm sure lots of other single parents would also have trouble juggling this.'

whoingodsnameami - I am out all day get my child from the nursery I work at get home for half 6, bath, bed, then got to cook, do all the ironing, cleaning etc. I never, ever have my husband to help me in the week as he doesnt get back until too late. It is hard but its got to be done.

Stuck - pray tell what are my apparent views?

agree with Jarms last post.

It's going to be shit - not just for those us on benefits, but for those such as sunshine, expat, and others who are the working poor, and indeed even those on the thread on lower/middle incomes who are working.

While we're all bickering among our selves the fat cats are going to be chuckling away to themselves.......

Also can I just ask how people are planning to cover childcare when their children turn 7 and they have to work?