in thinking that the Government cannot possibly ensure people are better off working than on benefits unless they increase wages massively?

[TheJollyPirate]

TBH I cannot see how the Govt are going th achieve their aim to make sure "nobody is better off financially on benefits than in work".

I work part-time as I have a son with a disability. I take home £849 and get Tax credit of £190 plus Child benefit of course - Working Tax credit adds another £50 - all in all just over £1100. I am just over the limit for housing benefit and all other help although if DLA is approved for my son that may change a bit.

One of my families gets housing benefit of £700 a month plus tax credit, plus income support, plus child benefit. On paper at least they out-strip me and unless wages drastically improve (oh - was that a recession I just saw over there) then nothing much CAN change. The Govt are talking big but cannot deliver no matter what they say.

I will stay worse off financially than the family I work with who will remain unemployed because wages are NEVER going to amount to enough for them to get work and maintain their home. Not their fault and I am more fortunate in other ways but financially - nah - they are doing a bit better than me (but probably only just).

I am watching the Govt but not holding my breath on this one.

Or do you know different?

If so - explain because I am being a bit thick about it.

'Sorry, don't mean to disrespect adult chat line workers, but come on, it can hardly be called easy work, or good pay, can it??'

Yep its easy all you have to do is talk. I had a headset on the phone so I could iron or watch eastenders with the subtitles on! Its only talking at the end of the day. It isnt hard at all. You dont know how easy it is to talk to these men as its the kind of blokes that have never even been with a woman so it doesnt even matter if they heard the iron they are just impressed to be speaking to an actual member of the opposite sex I think!

I know some people wouldnt agree but at the end of the day if it keeps the benefits bill down for the country I dont see it as a bad thing. Its easy and pays well more money for the country, the nhs and the community by me not claiming. I really dont see the problem. I dont think you understand I would literally do anything to not be on benefits and I 100% mean that as long as its legal. I dont believe in money for nothing and its just the way I am. I am not harming anyone by making up some lame stories to a bloke on the phone but taking money from taxpayers and other things that it could be used on to better the country if you dont need to is not something I would ever consider doing as I see that as way worse. Each to their own I suppose.

I didnt ever write on my cv (obviously) but needs must. Also its hardly cheating lol my husband used to be sitting here whilst I was doing on the xbox!

'I presume it is by answering loads of calls and getting them to come hang up quickly.'

The longer you keep them on the more money you get a minute so its better to keep them on than get them to hang up quick. A lot of the people would ring up for the same person and sort of become your 'friend'. Those callers often wouldnt even want to talk about anything dirty often just their lives etc. I felt quite sorry for a lot of them really as they were obviously lonely and wanted to chat to someone. I was often talking about what music I liked or how the weather had been! Some used to stay on for an hour or more talking about random topics like that!

Obviously there was a lot that just wanted dirty stuff but I just did a lot of the imagine if I was there right now blah, blah, blah types of convos!

'No, there is nothing wrong with any of the jobs I have mentioned, but I speak for myself, and I personally wouldn't want to do those jobs. '

Im sorry but I think it is more degrading to say this about the list of jobs mentioned and still be on the list for a bigger house than it is to work on a sex line. I will happily carry on doing everything I can to provide for my kids and if we can ever afford a 3 bed on our own then we can if not they will share a room in our flat until we move out.

Nobody wants to do those jobs, just as not a lot of people can be bothered to get up in the morning and go to back breaking labouring jobs (my husband does it for £5.75 an hour 12 hours a day), cleaning up after others, cleaning the streets etc but people would soon be moaning if no one bothered to go out and everyone decided they didnt really fancy it. I dont feel degraded or dirty for the things I have to do but I would if I chose not to do anything at all and be supported by others

I agree sunshine - you provide for your family and deserve respect for that.

"we don't have to work in a job that we may find unbearable, demoralising or morally unacceptable??" Get real - thousands of people have jobs they find unbearable and demoralising and some I am sure morally unacceptable. Like I said before sometimes you have to do what you have to do. I have a good job but that does not mean I don't find it unbearable and demoralising at times. As for morally unacceptable, well hundreds of corporate decisions are taken on daily basis by people in nice suits in "respectable" offices which are totally morally unacceptable to them. So yes we do have to work in jobs that that we find unbearable, demoralising and morally unacceptable.

Havent read whole thread so apologies if I'm repeating points already made.

Know someone who is an unemployed single mum of 27 with 5 children, living in a three bedroom privately rented house in London, paid for by housing benefit. Don't know how much she's getting on benefit but assume it must be at least 23k a year. Really - she's done quite well for herself to have achieved this income as she has no qualifications at all and has only ever worked as a care-assistant (for about 5 minutes in between pregnancies).

Don't see why we feel it's ok for one sector of the community (bankers) to fuck the country over out of naked self-interest, and yet feel it's not OK for working class women to do this, when for them the stakes are so much higher (most bankers could still have a decent standard of living without acting unethically).

Can we please lose the idea that more children = bigger house I have families on my caseload (working and non-working ones) who have 4 children in a 2 bedroom house. The social housing is just not there. The living room counts as sleeping accommodation and babies under 1 do not count in the figures. Children under 12 (I think - could be wrong on that figure) only count as a half.

There was a programme on bbc1 Scotland on Weds night called 'Who's Cheating Who' about the benefits system.. it was very interesting and a real eye opener.

Worth a look on iPlayer if you have the time or inclination

jolly pirate - Well I dont think they should get bigger houses. We live in a 2 bed flat (family of soon to be 4) and I grew up as a family of 5 in a 2 bed flat. You either deal with the space you have been given, plan the amount of children you have better or work for it. You should not get bigger houses if you are in a non working household even if you have 40 kids. You should be thankful you live in a real house and not a flat in my eyes.

'So, with the houses thing, everyone ok with heaving old people on housing benefit out of big houses?
I am. My own mum was hogging a 4 bedroom HA house alone for bloody years. '

yep I think the second your last kid moves out then a couple/single parent should be moved to a one or two bed flat and leave a house for a family.

sunshine2010

'Yep its easy all you have to do is talk. I had a headset on the phone so I could iron or watch eastenders with the subtitles on! Its only talking at the end of the day. It isnt hard at all. You dont know how easy it is to talk to these men as its the kind of blokes that have never even been with a woman so it doesnt even matter if they heard the iron they are just impressed to be speaking to an actual member of the opposite sex I think!'

We will have to agree to disagree. I'm not convinced that 'these men are the kind of blokes that have never even been with a woman' and 'are just impressed to be speaking to an actual member of the opposite sex'.
So you never speak to men who are in relationships? Married? Have DC?
You make it sound like a lonely hearts phone line, when it's fair to say, it's actually a sex chatline.
Does this mean you have to chat to men about what they want to chat about 'within reason?'

There are some things that imo, are sacred, and sex is one of them.
If I had no issue with being a sex worker, I would also expect to be paid more than 18p a minute.
Of course, it's your call,but it's not for me.

Mingg Have you ever been a sexworker? You say 'Get real, many jobs are unbearable'. Maybe there are many unbearable jobs, but sex work, well even the jobcentre wont force an unemployed person to apply for a sex workers job.

Do morals go out of the window so long as you are not on benefits.

Get real. We no longer live in a society where we have no choice but to sell sex to feed our families and provide a roof over their heads. And I for one am thankful for that.

Sunshine2010 WRT your post 08:25, I, like many others, did plan my family on the basis of my current situation at the time.

My circumstances have now changed.

Whether I worked as a sex chat worker or not, I would still be applying for a 3 bed house.

There is no sustainable way that a possible 10-18p per minute could earn enough week in, week out to getsomeone completely off of benefits.

Round of applause for Sparklefrog!

I also planned my family on circumstances at the time, well apart from DS2 who was a "suprise" (but we could easily afford him) and DS3 that was a failed MAP. But 6 months after he was born we could afford him again anyhow because of the work I'd been doing

right off to get ready for church, don't wan tot be late, this work shy single mum on benefits has a job to do when she gets there

Well exactly Tocca, when i had all mine, DH was working full time (in the Army - for Sunshines safety no less!) unfortunately, he was medically discharged from the army when I was 24weeks pg with DS.

Not much I could have done there hey! Im just thankful that there seems NO MENTION of War Pensions being hit by the likely cuts.... and we have already accepted a no-rise in his Army Pension this year.

Thank you Riven and DanJARMouse.

'Sunshine2010 WRT your post 08:25, I, like many others, did plan my family on the basis of my current situation at the time.

My circumstances have now changed.

Whether I worked as a sex chat worker or not, I would still be applying for a 3 bed house.

There is no sustainable way that a possible 10-18p per minute could earn enough week in, week out to getsomeone completely off of benefits'

I was making over £250 a week take home for quite a few months when I was pregnant. Not bad money so I wouldnt knock it.

I am also planning on having 3 kids but having them in my 2 bed flat that I have worked for. I dont think I 'deserve' it cause I had a kid and then get my life funded for me. To me that definitely is prostitution.

Ha sex is sacred but sponging off the government isnt. hmm nice. Anyway I am leaving this thread now and thanks for the lovely comments I have had from blue shoes, mingg, herbietea, violet hill etc.

What lovely values you have to pass on to your children.

Ha Sex is Sacred..... well yes it is, but if you want to pass on to your kids that its ok to work as a sex line operator or prostitute, go ahead.

I think its a good idea for you to leave... but first....

do you think the armed forces families deserve to have the size appropriate house for their family? Do they deserve subsidised rent for the property?

DanJARMouse - I am not on about the armed forces both my brothers are serving right now and they are doing a job cause they deserve subsidised rent they are doing something useful. They should take money of benefit layabouts and give it to war pensions, improving armed forces wages, conditions, equipment, supporting armed forces families and putting wages up etc. This is what they could have if the benefit bill was cut. I am proud my taxes help these people and by me not being on benefits can help put in to pots for war pensions.

Medical discharge is diferent as it is a medical issue and isnt the people this is aimed at. I am aiming it at 100% healthy.

'I would also expect to be paid more than 18p a minute'

well of course you would cause you are getting paid loads for sitting at home doing nothing. Its obviously not going to seem much if you dont have to do anything at all and still expect a 3 bed house and stamp you feet cause your kids 'deserve' a 3 bed house with a room each. I am sorry but there is nothing that is more disgraceful than this mentality. That is why kids grow up and copy their parents and it is a vicious cycle why work when my mum didnt bother? Its not worth it. Of course its worth it more money for the NHS, Armed Forces, Community centres, social services etc, etc.

Your morals have already gone out the window a long time ago if you think your kids deserve a room each funded by the taxpayer even when you dont work.

Exactly my point Sunshine2010

You are planning to have 3DC. I take it you haven't actually had 3 yet then, so you are making plans to have 3DC, based on your circs at the present moment. Exactly the same circs as many women, who are now on benefits, were in when they originally decided to have more DC.

But people's circs change, sometimes after they have had DC, and when circs change, it is sometimes a necessity to rely on benefits.

As for earning over £250 a week, I wonder if this was before you had DC, or were you juggling a baby and the phone lines. I am inclined to think it was pre DC, but please put me right if I have that wrong.

Just one more point, how can you say 'getting your life funded' is akin to prostitution?
On that basis, every DW/DP in the country who works and provides for their families are either prostitutes or pimps.

Just for your information, prostitution is 'the act or practice of engaging in sexual intercourse for money'.
Doesn't sound like any kind of govt benefit I am aware of, but maybe the LibCons will make changes there.