in thinking that the Government cannot possibly ensure people are better off working than on benefits unless they increase wages massively?

[TheJollyPirate]

TBH I cannot see how the Govt are going th achieve their aim to make sure "nobody is better off financially on benefits than in work".

I work part-time as I have a son with a disability. I take home £849 and get Tax credit of £190 plus Child benefit of course - Working Tax credit adds another £50 - all in all just over £1100. I am just over the limit for housing benefit and all other help although if DLA is approved for my son that may change a bit.

One of my families gets housing benefit of £700 a month plus tax credit, plus income support, plus child benefit. On paper at least they out-strip me and unless wages drastically improve (oh - was that a recession I just saw over there) then nothing much CAN change. The Govt are talking big but cannot deliver no matter what they say.

I will stay worse off financially than the family I work with who will remain unemployed because wages are NEVER going to amount to enough for them to get work and maintain their home. Not their fault and I am more fortunate in other ways but financially - nah - they are doing a bit better than me (but probably only just).

I am watching the Govt but not holding my breath on this one.

Or do you know different?

If so - explain because I am being a bit thick about it.

I think it's a strange mindset that sees vouchers as demeaning. If you need support to buy food, why not give vouchers? Better than giving money which could be used on fags or iphones while cutting back on buying healthy food. (And before anyone jumps on me, I know several people on benefits who smoke and/or have iphones, neither of which I personally would call essential - or even desirable (but that's another thread!!))

Totally agree with you HappyMummy - it's all the peripheral things which make the difference - free prescriptions, free dental care etc which all add up and make living on benefits potentially hardly any different to working in a low paid job. And that's the bottom line - working should always pay more than benefits - how else are you ever going to motivate the unwilling to get out to work?

I think if you talk about vouchers being demeaning, it's a self fulfilling prophecy - that's how society will see it.

If you talk about it as a practical, sensible approach which means that people who aren't working have to buy fruit and veg etc rather than prioritising fags or whatever, then people would just accept that's how it is.

Prescriptions are a bloody big deal I think - DH and I both suffer from hayfever, and need two different medications each - tablets and inhaler - that's four payments in the last fortnight.

MY WAY, would be to work for the SAME benefits; whilst still on the same benefits.

To put value back into Society/Community.

Added Value.

The Women on benefits with children of School age; go along to the same school and work.

Work would be dependent on their skills/education/criminal background.

The work would be Cleaning, Office admin, school Gardening, "organising" the art box; anything that needed doing within any particular School.

Just about anything that they were capable of.

The Mother works for the same time as the children are at School.

Where the Mother has children at different schools; she elects the school of her choice; with due allowance for pick-up/drop off times.
The Mother works at the School of her choice.

There would be flexi time.

If a child (single or multiple) is ill; there is no requirement to "advise" apart from the normal requirements of the school.IE telephoning to say that the Child is ill at around 9am.

Credit for "working hours" would still be allocated whilst the Mother was looking after the sick/ill child.

It would require "Joined up thinking". It would require tight Administration.

Sadly all that is lacking in Governement Administration.

I'm an Accountant; working in the sticks.

My idea would have the simplest administration; and least paperwork/compliance for all involved.

But it's too simple.

Governement will take a sledge hammer to crack a nut; set up another agency; another bloody website that crashes and we'll be no further forward.

I'll expand on invalidity and disability as soon as I've seen my Mum of the premises (she's having tea at the moment).

She wants a full tour of the garden. Bless.

She's as mad as a box of frogs. The Heavens have opened and She wont take No as an answer.

Nor has she claimed anything for disbility; apart from a blue badge.

I don't see benefits as a particular "malaise" of the UK today. I see it as "untapped" opportunity for progress.

Blooming - I like your way

Depends on the meds - there's a lot of over the counter stuff that works out cheaper if you have to pay for prescriptions - but they don't touch bad allergies.

Not necessarily (shiftworkers for example)

Riven are you being serious about the time to shop & cook. If you're on benefits you should be doing community work to help out.

BloomingFlowers - why didn't you stand for Parliament?!!

When would they shop/clean/cook? Same time as two working parent families do it! ie- squeezed into the occasional 15 minutes you can find and you're not totally knackered after being out of the house since 7.30 am!!

It's the benefits culture of can't do it, no just not possible & hand out. The state slaps cash out now but it can't forever & then those who need help wont get it.

Agree bluecardi.

The fact is - the system is not sustainable. You can believe what you like - but that's the fact of the matter. The country is in an economic mess, and its going to have to be sorted.

Imagine a feckless young person, living beyond their means, spending on booze, nights out and gadgets, borrowing money to enable them to do it, or running to mum and dad for a bail out now and again. Then suddenly the bank says, er nope, you can't borrow any more, or raise your credit card limit again, and mum and dad say, er nope, this is our money, not yours, you're going to have to start living within your means.

Now multiply that several million times. That's what has happened. People have got used to thinking that there are endless pots of money, and that if they want something, they're entitled to have it now. The country has had this coming a long time. Time for change.

'Still want to know how you'd support your children with no benefits as a single parent doing a paper round or a cleaning job.....'

As I said Tocattonfudge I 100% believe that single parents should get top ups but they should work as well. TOp ups I am 110% for but money for nothibng for 18 years I am not

And it won't be "just" for 18 years - anyone who has been on benefits for that long is going to find it nearly impossible to find a job

'but you don't get all of nursery for free. you still have to pay 20%......and you have to find a job that's actually in nurser hours........ '

Err no you dont as you can make it up from the child part of the tax credits as I said before as I do. I get my full childcare entitlement covered by tax credits as do all the parents at my nursery through doing this. Most are single mums with 1 - 6 kids but they all manage to do it.

'and I wish I had loads of disposable income ever month, and could do everything I wanted, and eat afford to eat at McDonald's 3-4 times a week, holiday twice a year, and go out for meals regularly.'

Well between me and my husband and child benefits we make £1400 a month. Hardly loads but we go on two sun holidays a year for £9.50 each. Mcdonalds are only £1.99 as they do special vouchers for them. I get all meals for free through doing survey sites on Valued Opinions and make £50 every 2 months from that.

I did tell you how I knew the inner lives of so many people I worked in the local for four years!

'And it won't be "just" for 18 years - anyone who has been on benefits for that long is going to find it nearly impossible to find a job'

Agreed Mingg

'Sunshine

Expat - They can work 16 hours without it affecting their entitlement the same as the low income British single mums.

Entitlement to what?

Sorry if I have missed this bit.'

You dont lose any benefits at all if you do 16 hours of work

sunshine2010 no racism really (we only have polish people you never see black people etc as I am in South West).

I dont know what part of the South West you live in but thats where I live and there is a multi cultural society,dd attends one Secondary school and ds another and there are children from a great number of ethnic backgrounds at both schools.

As for saying there is no racism here,that is rubbish,the South West suffers as much from racism as any other part of the country,I know, I have suffered from racism to the degree that a Police Officer telling me that if they had been made aware of it at the time,then they would have launched an investigation with a view to prosecuting the offenders.

bubbles4 - In the sticks really lol. I dont want to reveal my location in here but far down.

'so you weren't a single parent then when it used up all your income?

I don't (won't) begrudge paying for childcare

but

A) not everyone is lucky to find a 9-5 job (or even between the hours of 8am and 6pm)

b) not everyone is going to be able find childcare outside of those hours

c) a single parent on a low wage is unlikel to be able to cope over the August holidays if the extra childcare costs leaves then short for the entire month......'

You can get childminders that do all kinds of hours. In our nursery we do care from 6am -8am before nursery and from 6pm til 12 midnight as we just go to the persons house and look after their kids whenever they need it. A lot of parents are on unsociable hours.

In answer to c you get the money as soon as you ring up for the childcare tax credits. I got mine within 2 days of ringing up whenever my childcare prices flucatuate and this has happened about 10 times since she was born so I dont see how anyone would be short?