to think that there is a witch hunt against Andrew Wakefield?

[MagalyZz]

I just can't believe that they're still gunning for this guy!?

Whatever you make of his research, it WAS his research and he found what he found and he should be allowed to "suggest a link"

I have a child on the spectrum who had the MMR and I do not think the MMR had anything to do with it, but I do believe Dr Wakefield that a tiny percentage of people do react very badly to this vaccine.

Leave the guy alone ffs!!

I think there are a huge number of people responsible in this issue - including a govt who chose to then limit availablity of single vaccines, an act of bullying stupidity.

And I also blame everyone who exaggeates the danger of measles so that the whiff of hysteria surrounds every discussion. Measles kills rarely and always was regarded as a mild disease in the UK until it became convenient to paint it as the plague. I amd every member of my extended family had measles. I am old enough to be of an age when my GP told my mum "relax it isn't serious its justthe measles"
And then lets add those who have newspapers to sell and those who look to use the parents involved as a whipping boy.
Very few people involved do not have a smidge of blame.

'would appear to suggest that the GMC believe that the question he was asking - namely whether these childrens' problems could be traced to things that could be found in their gut - should and could never be asked (from an ethical point of view). In other words the finding of unethical conduct is contingent on there being no substance to the hypothesis Wakefiled was putting forward; but you can't possibly know whether there's substance to it or not unless you explore it. Am I missing something? '

nope you're not, at all: quite the opposite

'But its all ok, because all parents of damaged children want is something to blame. Not to find out what went wrong so that a) it can be treated and b) it doesn't happen again. No. All that is needed is to be able to say."xxxx is to blame" that will make it ALL better. '

Absolutely SF; my interest in the aetiology of the boy's ASD (ds1 is the GF / CF bowel candidate) has nothing to do with wanting to minimise the risk factors fdor ds4 and any children the boys may have (excpeting ds3 obv who clearly will not: ds1 unlikely but who knows) and everything with 2wanting someone to blame. Likely huh?

God , wouldn't it be nice if this wasn't a media frenzy with whores like Michael Fitzpatrick keen to sell their opinion and stoke the fire

Wouldn't it be nice if sensible research could be done on my son and his peers to try and find out what happened to them. Then maybe they could be made a bit happier and a bit more comfortable. And I could find out which vaccines I can safely give to DD without havingto guess and hope , all the while being called a bitch who is using herd immunity and endangering other people.
Wouldn't it be nice.
But it is Never Going To Happen.
Because who would dare.

See this always ends up being about measles.

I agree with you novicemama that measles is a serious disease and one that it is great to be able to protect our children against. Wakefield thinks the same thing and has said so on many occasions.

The MMR is not a measles vaccine though is it? It is a vaccine for measles, mumps and rubella.

If this is all about measles than why in the name of all that is sane are single measles vaccine not available on the NHS?

Regardless of the autism issue, some people do not want the MMR anyway because they have valid reasons for not wanting to vaccinate against mumps and/or rubella. Lots of people do not want MMR because single measles vaccine is more effective. Lots of people do not want MMR or to give it its correct title MMRII because MMR mark one had to be withdrawn from the market because it was very dangerous.

novicemama

Can I just say , to be clear, I have absoloutely no problem with your opinions or experiences or views.

In case you think my posts are aimed at you they really honestly are not.
I totally respect that you see this differently

Hello pagwatch.

Starstruck that you have actually met the good doctor.

My collateral damage ain't doing too well at the moment (weight issues, asthma and strange fungal overgrowth) - how are things with you?

'novicemama, reading your posts, its evident that you are not a scientist.
It also seems that you hold all, who have not allowed their DC to receive MMR, directly responsible for your DD case of measles'

should that be true novicemama you are clearly abrking up the wrong tree as ds4 has had s ingle jab. MMR has been compeltely irrelevant to his ability to pass any disease to your child.

DS3 had a late MMR and went from a child able to talk about teh school rabbit we were hosting to one with no language, at the particularly late regression age of almost 3. It does not say this in his notes, tehre is nobody who will record that, some mutter about seeing developmental milestones that do not exist but I am intelligent and not delusional: I can tell if my child talks. DS1 clearly had ASD before MMR but every time I take him to the GP related to his bowel issues they are brushed off; why is that? I don't beleive in a conspiracy per se but I do see wary professionals.

Anyway you seem pro compulsory MMR; should we administer MMR to ds4 and then he regress and say fifteen yerars time there is proven to be a link for kids with a very rare genetic profile, would you take responsibility? Would you help with respite? Finances? Or would our lot be random hard luck for the greater good and ds4 be effective wastage? Becuase whilst I did cosndier giving the MMR booster to s3 when a child in his class developed cancer (he moved school to an SNU anyway) I note there is nobody willing to tkae any fall to help us- we get knocks on teh door screaming abuse, not offering help; the possibility of a future subsisting on Carer's Allowance; a lifetime on 4 hours sleep.... if we should all be acting for the good of scoiety where is this brilliant supportive society then? Becuase we seem to be missing it.

Actually we have been assessed as in need of a SW and a respite / summer club placement this week- but it's full and the SW is trying to jump the queue (based on teh fact we were refered over a year ago and it not followed up) but my guess is it'll be a no.

Hey Beachy

DS2 is having a really bad time just now. Diet is OK but he is very upset at a new over night arrangement at school and is so distressed all the time. He is 13 now though and has shot up and is Sooo handsome. I wonder if hormones are playing their part too

I can cope with a lot but his distress is hard to bear. Its so artless IYSWIM

Sorry your statistical blip is struggling too. It is two steps forward one cback isn't it... or three forward two back...

Sorry missed off last line

So if you think I can afford, mentally or otherwise, to take a risk that I beleive is genuine youa re wrong: I cannot. I do not have the capaciity to tkae what I feel would be the self blame if things went awry.

not that ity would be an option anyway; DH is far mroe fervent a beleiver in the possibility of a link than I and would run off with ds4 if I so much as suggested it.

Shit pagwatch that is rough. I know what you mean about the watching them in distress thing.

We just have physical stuff so I can only imagine your situation. We would take on the suffering 10 times over if we could just take it away from them.

Thanks for the wine, am off to the shop for supplies now as it is 'fete des voisins' here and we are having a street party and getting pissed! Hurrah.

hurrah indeed.

Have you all seen this new research linking behaviour and the immune system?

Well I said I didn't want to have the last word so I will give my last last last post to Andy's words because I know that he will be respected more than anyone else

?If I am wrong I will be a bad person because I will have raised this spectre.?

Andrew Wakefield, March 3, 1998. Interview in The Independent.

I just heard it on the news. Sounds like a big deal to me and possibly very pertinent to this issue, but I suppose it will take a while to filter through.

ok Leonie

So I can withdraw my bit about respecting her views.

And extend the scope of my bullying stuidity contempt.

Cyber you got a link for that?

I thought it went;

"If I am wrong I will be a bad person because I will have raised this spectre. But I have to address the questions my patients put to me. My duty is to investigate their stories."

I have never seen it in its proper context though.

Wow that is interesting PillarBox - goodness will have them admitting that ME is medical and not psychiatric at this rate!

i think you must be all deaf the parents of the children who lost their bowels have a lot to thank Dr Andrew Wakefield for; colitis and gut dybyosis is major thing that effects 77%of autistic children and without his perserverance many more would have lost their bowels.... and many more live in permanant pain..

parents need to educate themselves on the reason why this came into being by a journalist Brian Deer funded by glaxo smith kline etc and why the cover up still continues due to the fear of the government and nhs being sued by millions of parents of autistic parents..

if in doubt study the results at autismone
or readhisbook callous disregard available atamazon usa..we dont have an epidemic in measles wehave an autism epidemic 1 in 64 boys 1 in 125 girls ......