Nannies and House help

[Bena1]

I believe in making life easier for oneself if one can afford it. So if you can afford a nanny and/or house help, I say go for it.

DH finds it outrageous that people have nannies for their children. I find it outrageous that people would allow their children to be completely raised by a nanny but having help even if you're a stay at home mum is perfectly acceptable to me. I don't have a nanny for my 13 week old DS and don't want one. Having said that I don't see anything wrong with mothers who do. I know women in the UK who say they would never have a nanny or house help etc and when they've been posted aboard they instantly have all the help they could get and more - nannies, drivers, house help, cook etc etc.

Same applies to house help. I say it bring it on. I had to put my foot down with DH to get someone to come and help clean the house and cook from time to time.

We're aboard and help here is much cheaper than it is in the UK. It is also the norm with expats and locals. People here, Brits included, actually find it surprising that I've opted not to have a nanny.

AIBU?

YANBU - if I could afford it I would have the whole caboodle: nanny, cleaner, cook, gardener, maternity nurse etc, and then I could just pick and choose the elements of parenting and housekeeping that I wanted to do!

Yanbu but you may have just opened up a whole can of worms...

Which bit are you asking about?

To have a bit of help if you're a SAHM - YANBU, whatever floats your boat.

'allow their children to be completely raised by a nanny' - YABU because you haven't defined completely raising. I used to work 24/5 as a nanny and there was another nanny to cover weekends but my boss was an excellent mother, very involved in her child's life and certainly not leaving it up to us to raise him - she just happened to have a very demanding job.

about women who don't want help in the UK but have it when you're abroad - YAB a bit U to be a tad judgemental of them being hypocrites, because expat lifestyles are usually completely different to those in the UK and it probably wasn't something they thought they needed before as their lifestyle didn't warrant it. If we have children here in this heat I'll definitely be getting a cleaner or someone but I probably wouldn't in the UK.

re expats, YAB (slightly) U but they are also being (slightly) hypocritical if they are criticising people in the UK for having nannies/ cleaners.

Issues with many places where FT help is the norm (eg Asia/ ME) are that -

• maternity leave is short and badly paid. Paternity leave is often non-existant. Flexible/ part time working- what's that?

• even if you are a SAHM, the expectations are that you have help so no-one makes allowances if you dont. You're expected to be in 2 places at once and babysitters dont really exist because everyone has FT help.

• You generally have NO family help at all and may not have many friends you feel you can pull in favours from/ rely on in emergencies.

• In those parts of the world, there can be social expectation that if you can afford it, you provide employment to those that need it because there is no welfare state.

• things can take a lot longer- supermarket shopping is rarely a one stop shop/ internet shopping doesnt always exist/ cant just do 1 big weekly shop because food doesnt last as long- most meat/fish has 1 day shelf life etc

You say your DH thinks it's outrageous for people to have nannies for their children.

Does he think any sort of daycare is outrageous? How about nurseries? Or does he believe all women should be SAHMs?

Because if he accepts nurseries and other forms of daycare, then why not nannies, where the care is one-on-one and in the child's own home?

Jut trying to understand his particular sticking point.

5dollarshake, my DH doesn't believe in all women should be SAHMs. He just thinks parents should take care of their DC if the can afford to stay at home -men or women.

I can see if you've just moved abroad, your Dh prob finds it a bit weird seeing all the SAHM's with their helpers and can't understand why they're needed. Many times they're not really (in the absolute sense of the word), but it is nice to have some on hand babysitting, especially when you're in a strange country- and actually, as you say, why not?

These women (and men-there are a lot of drivers here- it's cheaper than parking) really need and want these jobs. The biggest contributor to the GDP of the Philippines is remittances from foreign domestic workers.

I really don't think it is outrageous to have full time childcare or domestic help (if you can afford it). You could equally argue that it is outrageous that grown women give up any semblance of a career to stay at home all day doing domestic duties. But that would be seeing it from only one side, wouldn't it?

OK, so he doesn't have a problem with nannies per se, just SAHMs using them.

Spoken like a true work-away-from-home Dad, who's never stayed at home to look after one child, let alone more than that.

Although I don't think you're being unreasonable in the slightest, but I don't know how you can convince him, quite honestly. If he had to be persuaded to get a cleaner in, then he's likely to be way more resistant to a nanny.

I do think he's being pretty selfish though. This is something which impacts on your day-to-day life way more than his, so he clearly doesn't see the problem.

People have assistants in all walks of life - even people at work who don't have their own PAs or secretaries have admin staff to help with certain things. This is no different, to my mind. I bet he will never see it though.

You do say that you don't want a nanny, though, so is this even an issue?

5DollarShake - you have made me think, do I really want a nanny? I would love one when I'm tired. DS is 13 weeks and right now I don't want a nanny. I wouldn't mind when he's a bit older. I completely agree that people have assistants in all walks of life. I think what my DH objects to also is that nannies here are not trained to be nannies, they are just help who you kind of train on the job.

I agree, DH speaks like a man who has never stayed at home with a child and has not BF every two hours for the past 13 weeks!!!!

TheBride - food here seems to have longer shelf life
I think people here decide to have help because is it cheap so they can afford it and it is the norm because everyone else seems to have one and if you don't it gets in the way of being a lady who lunches . As for relying on friends to babysit, you are leaving your child to a perfect stranger here when you have a nanny so why not leave them to be babysat with a newly made friend?

I'd love to have domestic help like they do in Hong Kong/Singapore. I visited some (well off!) friends and they had 3 filipino helpers. one per baby and 1 to cook. I was soo jealous. my left wing principles, out of the window!

But we live in the UK and the only think we can afford is a shitty cleaner who will likely bugger off with the keys after a few months

hey ho

Porcamiseria - all my left wing principles are out of the window, door, house. They actually never were allowed entry. We always had help when I was growing up so my left wing principles didn't/don't apply to that aspect of my life.

Bena- not saying you'll change your mind, but the longer you live somewhere, the more normal it seems. Many of our ideas that anyone who touches our child has to have quals is a uniquely western perspective.

When I first came to Asia I had the "but they havent been Ofsted inspected!!" reaction to the Filipino helpers. Now I can't really get back to that mind set.

These helpers often have their own children so they're not inexperienced. Yes, they are strangers but so's the childminder/nursery you'd leave your child with in the UK and as a helper lives with you, you get to know them pretty quickly.

re why wouldnt I ask a friend to babysit, because here the friend wouldn't want/need to do it- people dont babysit for one another because they all have helpers. They'd just be like "get a helper ffs you tightwad"

TheBride - hehe, people would say that. I personally have no problem with a nanny when DS is a bit bigger, I just feel a bit uncomfortable at the moment. But you are right the more you live somewhere the more normal this sort of thing becomes. Also we had help when I was growing up so it's not completely alien to me. I'll just have to work on DH as he just thinks it is completely unnecessary.

I've already spoken to the help who comes to clean. She's so lovely and wants to look after children. I'm just not ready yet. I haven't told DH I've spoken to her - now is that being unreasonable!?

Nah- just do it by stealth!! Good luck

Don't see the problem. I have help 6 hours cleaning a week and 9 hours general extra pair of hands who also babysits if we want to go out plus a gardener once every 2 weeks and am currently on maternity leave so in theory I shouldn't need the help but it makes my life so much easier so why not? It means that I can do no ironing and minimal cleaning, take my older kids to after school activities without dragging the baby, can spend time with them at bedtime without a screaming baby, I can feed the baby whilst someone else does dinner and washing up 3 nights a week and I can feel marginally less stressed.

Sure it's a luxury but having no family help and a husband out 15 hours a day if I can get the help then why would I not bother

I guess it also depends what your friends have and what you are used to. I grew up with "help", we had aupairs for years and my parents who live alone and work FT still have a cleaner, ironer and gardener so it's normal to me.

I would never again have a nanny, don't trust any one person with the DC's after the last one, but help in house, god yes, I signed up to be a mother not a maid !

YANBU the slightest. Household help is a brilliant little invention to be enjoyed to the fullest; speaking as a lifelong expat here, with 20 years of experience of 'managing' a vast army of maids, cooks, drivers, secretaries etc. etc.

Only you know whether you need and can afford domestic help, and precisely the type of help you want.

What is unreasonable is when SAHMs have so much domestic help that they become completely deskilled, lazy and incompetent.

I know exactly where you are coming from because I spent some years on an overseas posting where having a number of domestic employees was expected. TBH when you are earning a good UK salary and the going rate for a full time maid is about £50 per month, then show me the person who would decline and I'll shake their hand.... I actually had less help than many people but worked full time so the help that I had was needed (and much appreciated). Plus many of the domestic workers of my colleagues were 'inherited' from posting to posting so to decide that you didn't want/need one would've meant someone losing their livelihood.

But I do agree with Bonsoir's comments above. I knew many SAHMs who would never have dreamed of changing a nappy of getting up in the night to see to their own children.

True about nannies, Tryharder. I didn't have children while living overseas, was working full time. Saw many SAHMs who had farmed all childcare to Yaya's etc. and only ever held the little ones, briefly, during the cocktail reception to show them off; then sent back to the maids wing for the rest of the night. Felt very sad for the little ones