to be ANNOYED at the suggestion that women have ivf because they've 'left it too late'

[twinterror]

AAghghghgh!!!

journalist on the conception thread suggests that women 'leave it too late' to have a baby and then have ivf. Most women having ivf are indeed older but thats because they have been trying naturally for flipping years normally! People do not have ivf because its an easy option or they couldn't be bothered to have a child earlier on in life.

Drives me mad

Df, tbh I think that most people just assume that it will be available because most people don't have to consider that it won't. It's like any treatment - if you haven't had it then you don't know or even need to know that it's not always available on the nhs. There are certain cancer drugs for instance that aren't available on the nhs, but most people would just assume that if they were diagnosed with cancer whatever treatment was needed would be available to them. It's the same with fertility treatments.

And we all do it. We spend years trying not to get pregnant, taking the pill religiously, and then worrying if we've missed one, what if... Using condoms and rushing out to buy the morning after pill if one splits and hoping to God that we're not pregnant. Getting apprehensive if period is a day late.... We spend so long not wanting to get pregnant that it doesn't occur to us that maybe we can't.

It certainly didn't occur to me. I came off the pill and casually said that "oh well it might take a year to get pregnant so we just need to relax," but never did I think that it actually might take a year, or more. In fact I pretty much subconsciously expected to be pregnant the first month, because well, most of the people I knew had done just that. And then i didn't, after a month, or two, or three, or twelve... and after about six months I started to think something might be wrong, but we persiveered. I was lucky, I fell pregnant after thirteen months, but when it came time to try for my second child I was more open to the fact that actually, it might take a year, so a year came and went, then two, then three, and in the meantime we were told that chances were slim, and five years on from deciding we would complete our family with a second child it never happened. IVF wasn't for us, but whether it was or wasn't wasn't something we did or really could consider until we were faced with the reality that that was our only chance of conceiving a second child.

But wannabe, doesn't saying 'women leave it too late' give the wrong idea too? It can suggest to some men that they don't need, or aren't allowed, to think about it at all. And trying to conceive should surely the decision of both partners in a relationship.

Fertility can be such a roulette wheel whoever you are and whatever age you are.

My friend is an only child - conceived when her mother was on the pill. They then tried for 5 years for a sibling and it never happened.

None of us should take it for granted.

YANBU.

Having gone through it several times, it's definitely not an easy option. We started trying after we got married just before I turned 30. After 3 years of trying naturally, we were accepted to try IVF. Finally got pregnant with DS from a FET and had him a few months before I turned 38.

VERY luckily I fell pregnant naturally this time. A total surprise and a very welcome one of course.

Most of my friends didn't marry until their early 30's and had their first child round about 32/33 (most fell pregnant fairly quickly). That isn't really considered late, which is fine as long as it happens with no issues.

I resent people thinking I 'left it late'. You have to have been trying for quite a while before they'll even consider you for IVF.

I don't like this "left it too late" stuff - I've had SO many people throw that one at me over the years, without knowing any of the facts of my circumstances - I was 28 when I found out that I had fertility problems, I went through 5 years of assisted conception, to no avail, then began the adoption process which took the better part of 3 years. Some people do seem to think they have a right to ask really personal questions when you struggle to conceive, and the amount of family members, friends and colleagues who have referred to me as a "career woman" beggars belief. As though I made the choice to teach rather than be a parent, as one obviously can't do both!?

"I don't think she's saying that everyone who goes through IVF has left it too late - just that that's the angle she wants to cover with this story."

That's the angle unimaginative hacks always want to cover.

It's just predictable sexist bullshit.

Doesn't mean those people don't exist though, does it, that's all I was trying to say.

People are twats anyway - women who need IVF are leaving it too late.

I've been told I was too posh to push for having a c-section which saved my DS' life.

YOu just have to try to grow a thick skin over these things. No point getting hysterical over everything the media says.

according to the media, the only people that are ok to have kids, are members of the Royal Family, and Madonna, thouh they aren't too sure about her anymore....

but LittleRedDragon whether people want to admit it or not the decision over whether/when to have a child does often come down to the woman. Because women do have a biological need to have a child - this is not the same with men.

Many people are delaying having a family - that's a fact. And while there are certainly many contributing factors, one of these is almost certainly the fact that medicine has advanced signifficantly and that couples who are unable to conceive know that there are steps they can take in order to help them should they find they're having difficulty. That certainly wasn't the case 30 years ago.

Times have moved on, now people assume that women who haven't had a baby by the time they are 35 have developed their career first, and for many this is the case. 30 years ago if you hadn't had a baby by the time you were 30 the assumption was that you couldn't have children. Am not sure which is worse tbh.

I disagree that those women having IVF are leaving it too late.

and i agree with a lot of the good points on here about the years of TTC with no success (and often heartbreaking almost success)

I always said i didn't want children, then i met my ex, who also didn't want children. then i got to about 28 and decided that i did want children one day. ex didn't change his mind. we went through all those years of arguing the toss over so many life-long commitments (children, jobs, houses etc). in the end we got chickens and i got a bookshop. the bookshop sealed the coffin on our relationship, so i left him, got a new man and am starting again.

now-DF would love to have kids. he's 49on sunday. i'm now 34 (but only just!) and only opened this shop 18months ago. realistically, we need to TTC this year in order to avoid the 35+ problems that are reported, but i can't get pregnant while i can't leave the shop (can't afford to employ anyone). so, i suppose i've left it too late, and i'm so mad at my ex for making me do that. but, DF was always convinced that he'd never get married, so he'd resigned himself never to having children.

i don't know if this helps with the side of the argument that women don't always deliberately leave it to late.

Many people will have personal stories about how they started TTC to 21 and ended up having IVF in their thirtes. That doesn't change the fact that the average age of first pregnancy is older now than a generation ago - is it 30 now? So women in general are leaving pregnancy late, beyond the peak biological time to get pregnant and consequently some of them won't get pregnant.

We can do little to change biology, but we can change society. It is society that is encouraging this trend of older mothers. There is no point blaming the women who end uo on IVF. As others have said, there is a lot of misinformation and people are encouraged to leave it late.

Well I married at 26 and was planning to start a family. We didn't try to conceive in the first year. We stopped using contraception in the second year but within a few months of unsusccessful trying dh announced he wanted to leave as he had met another woman so that put paid to having a baby. I was 28 yrs old

It then took me 7 years to find someone to settle down with who wanted children. I had a couple of more serious relationships in that time and a few shorter flings, but neither of the more serious ones ever translated into the guy wanting children.

I worked incredibly hard and was financially not very secure in my late 20's/early 30's so having a baby with no partner/support seemed madness to me at the time

I met dh when I was 36 and started trying to get pregnent within a year. I got pregnant quite easily actually the first time but then I had two miscarriages I had two miscarriages it tool longer to conceive each time and by then I was 38 years old.

I then started to investigate ivf options and then got pregnant at 39 yrs old naturally.

After DS though it was obviously never happening again as my periods never came back properly after ds was born. I hit an earlish menopause at 41 years old

So yes I did put it off but frankly any other decision would have made me one of "those single mothers" I had the bad luck to have an early menopause and to be not very fertile.

Of course my life is made up of my choices but I don't remember ever "making the choice" to put off having childen in a conscious way. I tghink I made "responsible" choices through my life and quite frankly I wish I hadn't. I wouldn't have the regrets I have now if I'd been a bit more ireresponsible.

I have not read the thread in question. However, I do know quite a few women who do leave it too late because they think they will fall pregnant easily in their late 30s and early 40s. I have a friend currently undergoing IVF who is 43. She was really suprised she did not get pregnant when she started trying at 39 and say her and her DH have unexplained fertility problems. Well, I dont know what is unexplained about not getting pregnant when you are that old. Of course reading about celebs having babies in their mid to late 40s makes it seem perfectly normal eventhough they have probably had rounds of IVF because they can afford it.

What really grates on me is that IVF is a massive industry. My friend has done 3 attampts now and paid 4K per attempt. At no point has the clinique she has gone to sat down with her and told her how unlikely she is to succeed and even if she does get pregnant she is much more likely to miscarry. One clinique did mention her age and she then got annoyed and moved to another clinique.

I think its great that IVF exists, but I think once you reach a certain age, then its really unethical to earn money on couples desperate for a baby with such a slim chance of success.

The peak age for fertility in women is between 20-24 years old. This means you need to have settled down with a partner by then. Of course some women will have but not many of those who have decide to go to university

So those of you who have daughters who are saying we leave it too late to try to conceive. Would you encourage your daughter to settle down at 20years old so she can start haing children, just in case she isn't very fertile in the future and regrets it?

As I said I first started to try for a baby at 27 years old (just past peak fertility) but for various reasons here I am at 45 years old with one 5 year old and no prospect of another

I do agree though that stories of celebrities having their first children in their 40's don't help things though. Not many of the magazines explain whether these celbrities had ivf or not. The fact is that if a woman is having ivf in her 40's to conceive it is very likely she is using doner eggs (assuming the problem isn't one of male fertility). no-one ever mentions that

The majority of PCT trusts do not allow IVF until you are at least 35 or 36 (in our local PCT) so if you are unable to become pregnant naturally you have no choice but to "leave it late" ....

'leaving it too late' pisses me off whether there's mention of ivf or not.. as if we should all have run out to clubs at 21 and shouted 'please impregnate me somebody, anybody'

i met my DP (soon to be DH) at 28. so sue me for not being pregnant before 30.

I do know a few people who've been with their partners since late teens and are now mid 30s and say they are still having too much fun to want to have children.

But I think they are in the minority.

At the end of the day, if fun is more important than having children then they may not be that bothered about having them at all. All down to personal choice really.

oh, and for the record, i don't know a SINGLE male who has admitted to wanting children before he was around 37/38.

I sympathasise with the posters here who are angry/upset that they have been accused of leaving it too late when in fact they'd been trying for years before ivf.

BUT the stark truth is you can't see your life without a baby then you have to consider trying earlier than you might want to - to be sure ifyswim!

I tell all 20 something women at work not to hang about if they want a family AND I am the MD so it is always an utter pain the arse when people go on maternity! .

wannabe

I don't think it's true at all that only women have a drive to have a child.

I agree totally about the 'rock and hard place' situation with careers and so on. But I don't think 'women leaving it late' really covers that dilemma. We need to find a way of making an economy work where women can have careers, and babies. It isn't there now, but I hope it will happen.

Btw, I've just seen fluffy's reply since it's at the bottom of the threat atm:

fluffy, I know loads of men who want kids, who're my age and younger (I'm 25). It's not unusual I think. This is a bit of a hot topic with me as my friend has just left her partner of 3 years as he wants a baby now (she is 28) and she is working on her PhD and doesn't want to consider children until she has at least got tenure as an academic (which might never happen, and is unlikely to happen before 35 at the very earliest). She admits she can't see herself wanting children at all, but she'd only even consider it once she had tenure.

I think there is some misinformation out there about being able to prolong your fertility. I have had friends say "Well yes, but I don't look 35" or "But I am really healthy and only eat organic food" and to an extent they really think this means they will definitely conceive in their late 30's. I really hope they do but I'm not sure their reasoning stands up. There are loads of fit, healthy women with fertility problems.

I left it pretty late, purely for selfish reasons- too busy having a good time, enjoying having money, partying,going on child unfriendly holidays- so the women the journo refers to do exist. I'm one of them. We were lucky but would only have ourselves to blame if we weren't. We could have started 2/3 yrs earlier but we just kept putting it off.

"BUT the stark truth is you can't see your life without a baby then you have to consider trying earlier than you might want to - to be sure ifyswim!"

But trying with WHOM??? Maybe i move in a strange social circle but honestly, i only know one person who had found a stable partner by the age of 25 that they're still with now (8 yrs later).

fluff I don't think you are in a strange social circle but a majority of my friends and myself actually have been with our dh since early mid 20s and we're now early 40s. I don't know how normal either situation is.
And yes of course if you're not in a relationship it is a nightmare for those who want a baby. I think i'd have gone it alone by 35 but I know I really can't say that and that route is hardly a magic wand affair.

You don't NEED a stable partner to have a child. I consciously chose to have a child on my own in my early 20s because I prioritised having a baby over having a relationship.

Even people who wait until they have a stable partner often end up being lone parents in the end anyway.

Why waste your most fertile years waiting for Mr Right?

If you want to bake the best cake you have to use the freshest eggs.