"Where were all the kids with ADHD 40 years ago then?"

[colditz]

Help me to answer my dad, who has delivered a fantastically ignorant diatribe (mainly along the lines of Ds1 "can't possibly be autistic, he's always smiling at me. He's a happy boy Colditz, he's not Autistic") but he has raised a point I can't answer.

Where were the children with ADHD 40 years ago?

Where were the children with High Functioning Autism?

According to him, and many people in their 50s, there WAS no ADHD, or CERTAINLY there wasn't in their school .... so ... where were they?

yes, the old days were not all they are cracked up to be

cornsilk - I know it is not a learning difficulty. I know it is a behavioural issue that prevents learning. As others have said, the boys in my class were called 'naughty' but not identified as having ADHD.

The learning outcome is that they were behind their peers. They were not given special help. They were therefore only just about functionaly able to read and write and do sums.

My point was that its what happened to children with ADHD 40 years ago and not an endorsement of it. It was not recognised and teachers had no extra resources.

Is it really any better today even though we recognise it now? Are learning outcomes so much better?

yes i think they are! it's a simplification to say that it's just the behaviour which prevents learning. There are visual learning techniques used now, where in the past, only aural techniques were used. It is now accepted that some people learn one way, and others another way.

my friends son has aspergers, and he is very intelligent but unable to express it in the mainsteam school system, and was unable to deal with moving to senior school. he is now at a residential school which he loves, but my friend is anxious because although he's now happier than he's ever been in his life, he now seems "more autistic" which worries her. which i find very interesting. its fantastic that such chidren are able to get the support and care they need in mainstream school, but its worrying that people think that schools specifically for children like my friends son are 'care homes' for 'special' kids. these schools are fantastic and the effect they've had on this lovely boy is amazing, we should have more of these places around surely?
very interesting thread, i didnt realise there was such a definate genetic factor in autism.

yeah its a tough one britfish. my son has picked up some stimming since he started at his special school... for him it's a mannerism but for the children he's picked it up from it's a coping mechanism. There is definitely a genetic factor..... I should have known I'd end up with a son on the spectrum. I wouldn't have NOT had him,,, but. He's the first dxd but not the first iykwim.

I'm 45 and I have ADHD as does my youngest son. He also has what they have labelled a 'social communication disorder' Basically he's mildly autistic but doesn't fully tick all the Aspergers boxes.

My Grandfather was very likely autistic. He couldn't cope at school and was sent at 13 to live in the woods and guard the pheasants from predators for the local gamekeeper. He never could cope with having people around and worked all his life as a farm hand. He was great with animals and when I was little he used to take me into the woods to see the badgers.

My Uncle had ADHD and dyslexia. He played truant from school all the time because he hated it, couldn't sit still and concentrate. He didn't learn to read until he was nearly 40 and finally was diagnosed. He'd been told he was just thick but had managed to work for years as a car mechanic.

My brother's best friend at Primary school had Tourettes. He twitched and rocked and made noises and we all just accepted it as the way he was. I can't even remember any fuss being made at school.

There was also a lad in my year who had Aspergers. He used to collect things that he found, like Coke can rings and keep them in his desk. Sadly he committed suicide when he was 18.

In my first job the guy who helped out in the post room was severely autistic. He could barely function and would have major meltdowns if an envelope was in the bag the wrong way round. He was actually quite scary because he was a big guy and would thrash around and hit out while screaming.

So these things were clearly around 40 years ago and far earlier. Maybe not labelled but they still existed.

Largely in correctional schools, I should imagine.

unvaccinated

where were they?

more like what were they

and that is, unvaccinated

That's too glib of me and I apologise. I'm not prepared, nor do I have the time, to back it up with links and arguments.

It's something I have come to understand quite strongly but I posted without thinking how hurtful and damaging such a glib statement could be.

So I apologise, especially to parents with a child on the ASD spectrum and with an ADHD diagnosis, for probably troubling you with that.

my grandma had 9 children 5 girls and 4 boys, and looking at it now, 2 of those males are on the spectrum. It's the children of the sisters though that have sons I suspect might be on the spectrum. Hard to say for sure as those affected are all very mildly on the spectrum,but I think that roughly 50% of the children of my grandma's daughters are on the spectrum. 50% of her sons are very geeky shall we say! and my grandma had some brothers who were regarded as odd and some brothers who had families and were obviously unaffected. I now worry if my daughter has a 50:50 chance of having a son on the spectrum, but then, maybe that's not a disaster. I love my son. My various uncles and cousins who I suspect may be mildly 'autie' are all doing well (although all quite 'alone' if measured by 'typical' standards.

They were like my uncle-in-law, who is just seen as "odd" and doesn't have or want any friends except for his dog, never talks to anyone, sends Christmas cards because it's part of his routine but doesn't come to family Christmas, drank a lot to self-medicate through school, etc., etc.

backtotalkaboutthis, I have a family history of males on the spectrum, long before any of them were brought to a clinic for routine vaccinations.

They are the ones who are still trying to pick up the pieces, still trying to find their way in the world and still invisible!!

mil was a primary teacher (retired) - she is very about such conditions, to her they were just naughty or products of poor parenting. Sad as ds has dyspraxia but she always seems unconvinced when we talk of it.

When I was at primary school (70's) there was a remedial classroom and the kids there didn't mix with the mainstream. I guess they largely went on to special schools. Still had our share of naughty kids though.

Yes, backy, there may be a link. But I know for a fact that measles can kill children.

I definitely think there needs to be more research, but to stop vaccinating full stop is dangerous IMVHO.

ADHD - or the characteristics of it were first recorded just over 100 years ago.

Not all children with adhd receive treatment these days and just have to 'get on with it', just as those children did before the disorder was officially recognised.

is that you mean back? that there weren'ty problems because the children weren't vaccinated, or do you mean (as i took it) that the children with SN didn't get special vaccines? (i was thinking the prescriptiosn that modern kids get to help their problems)

what you mean.

weren't

typing too fast, sorry.

'ADHD - or the characteristics of it were first recorded just over 100 years ago.'

The characteristics of most of these things have been recorded much earlier than that. I remember reading a list of medieval miracles including the curing of an 'fool maid' who used to talk gibberish and kept stripping herself naked: the 'miracle' made her lie still and silent 'contemplating the love of God' for a few years until she died, I'm sure that's a description of some kind of SN.

Diagnosis is better today which accounts for increased numbers but I have also listened to autism experts who say that there are more cases of today than there were in the past but they don't know the reason - hence the research.

And whilst I think most people accept the condition ADHD exists, there is much more scepticism re the more recently termed ODD.

There were also a lot more unskilled and semi skilled jobs for people to go into - so if you left school at 14 having learned very little there was somewhere for you to go where you could earn your living and lead a "normal" life. Those sort of jobs don't exist any more.

So glad someone has asked this question as it seems taboo to deny it exists. They must have been the kids who never went to school and just went straight into work.

Sorry, just read OP. I always felt odd at school, and this feeling got worse when I became a teenager. I could not think on my feet, and I froze when I was asked questions in class. I would be very anxious and giddy. School was awful as teachers would shout, scream, slap and humiliate me, which did wonders for my confidence. I was never good in social situations. I always wished I could be normal.

My DD1 was a dream baby and toddler, but as she grew up I started to spot the same characteristics. She was recently diagnosed with Aspergers. So I know that's what I had all along.

In a way my daughter is luckier because she gets the help of a SNA at school, and is doing very well. She also goes to a resource teacher and does relaxation exercises during the day. I had a tougher time at school (was suicidal for a year).

However, I worry about her being labelled. While I work in a professional job, I worry her future career choices could be more limited.

So to answer your father's question, those type of children were always around- and struggled!

My mother's cousin's son would be around 40 - 50 now. Always lived at home, always seen as the village idiot, never been able to hold down a job, is obsessed with routine, has trouble dealing with people.....

My mother's cousin was always criticised for "mollycoddling" him as if she was somehow to blame for the way he was. But in reality, she would've known the something was wrong but being poor working class and born before WW2, she would have had no idea what it was.

Makes you want to cry really for all the children that must have suffered.